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Gnostradamus
Registered User
(8/10/02 1:15:33 pm)

Analysis: The Three Sluggard Sons


A certain king had three sons who were all equally dear to him, and he did not know which of them to appoint as his successor after his own death. When the time came when he was about to die, he summoned them to his bedside and said, dear children, I have been thinking of something which I will declare unto you, whichsoever of you is the laziest shall have the kingdom. The eldest said, then, father, the kingdom is mine, for I am so idle that if I lie down to rest, and a drop falls in my eye, I will not open it that I may sleep. The second said, father, the kingdom belongs to me, for I am so idle that when I am sitting by the fire warming myself, I would rather let my heel be burnt off than draw back my leg. The third said, father, the kingdom is mine, for I am so idle that if I were going to be hanged, and had the rope already round my neck, and any one put a sharp knife into my hand with which I might cut the rope, I would rather let myself be hanged than raise my hand to the rope. When the father heard that, he said, you have carried it the farthest, and shall be king.

judih 
Registered User
(8/10/02 8:30:49 pm)
Re: Analysis: The Three Sluggard Sons
up at the crack of dawn
i shall carry this tale along
with me

first read spills Eureka
but there are other chains of thought

will return
thanks Gnostradamus

...judih

judih 
Registered User
(8/11/02 5:05:48 am)
Re: Analysis: The Three Sluggard Sons
A certain king had three sons who were all equally dear to him, and he did not know which of them to appoint as his successor after his own death. When the time came when he was about to die, he summoned them to his bedside and said, dear children, I have been thinking of something which I will declare unto you, whichsoever of you is the laziest shall have the kingdom. The eldest said, then, father, the kingdom is mine, for I am so idle that if I lie down to rest, and a drop falls in my eye, I will not open it that I may sleep. The second said, father, the kingdom belongs to me, for I am so idle that when I am sitting by the fire warming myself, I would rather let my heel be burnt off than draw back my leg. The third said, father, the kingdom is mine, for I am so idle that if I were going to be hanged, and had the rope already round my neck, and any one put a sharp knife into my hand with which I might cut the rope, I would rather let myself be hanged than raise my hand to the rope. When the father heard that, he said, you have carried it the farthest, and shall be king.

I lie down,
A drop falls
I will not open +, -, 0

I am sitting
Let my heel be burnt
Not draw back leg
+ 0 -

going to be hanged
rope around my neck 0
someone puts a knife in my hand
let myself be hanged
not raise my hand

totally passive
to actions rope
knife
let myself be hanged
not raise my hand to save myself


the third son is the most passive
yet there's another aspect about the welfare of the kingdom

Why is the King asking for the laziest son to succeed him?
Must be the idea of cosmic will

son one lies down, feels a drop on his eye but continues to sleep
this is an example of passivity in a sleeping state

son two is sitting - a trifle more 'lively'
his heel begins to burn
local pain - he will endure that pain but would not exert himself to prevent his heel from becoming further burnt

son three - is in a fatal situation
he's totally passive, both in his being there in the first place
and being the receiver of a rope about his neck
again he is passive receiver of a knife
but he does nothing to save himself from the predicament

This is laziness of an almost deliberate nature. How far is he willing to prove his worth. Almost like Isaac being asked to sacrifice his beloved son Jacob to his God. Total acceptance - is it laziness? or supreme submission of the ego in order to please the supreme spirit

In this way, the 3rd son shows such sacrifice in his pledge to his father

some thoughts
there are surely triads...i can feel the forces in the words

I think it must be a matter of scale. The first son offers discomfort, the second son offers pain, and the third son offers to go along with a hanging.

These are my thoughts

......judih

Gnostradamus
Registered User
(8/11/02 10:08:36 am)

Re: Analysis: The Three Sluggard Sons
Dear Judih,

A very thorough analysis.

As to your attempts at applying triads, I have had as little success as you. I know that it seems as though the triads must occur, but the best I have come up with reveals little.

You are absolutely correct that the welfare of the kingdom is at stake. This is the key to the tale.

Compare this tale to the last. In the last, all of the elements were formed from the same components. Everything was based around certain kinds of trees. In each case the trees and animals were place in a relationship of a specific quality.

In this tale the components are of totally different qualities. Water and eye, fire and heel, rope and knife, and each time the components are in clearly defined positions relative to one another. Hence, this tale is ideal for analysis by means of the I Ching.

Give it a shot.

One point. Above is equal to outer and below is equal to inner. For example clouds are above the ground when we are using the up/down relationships. However when we examine the system from the perspective of the Earth as a sphere, the clouds are outer, while the earth is inner.


Good luck,

Gnostradamus

judih 
Registered User
(8/11/02 10:54:28 am)
Re: The Three Sluggard Sons
When qi returns, Elixir spontaneously crystallizes
in the cauldron pairing water and fire.
Ying and yang arise, alternating endlessly,
the sound of thunder everywhere.
White clouds gather on the summit,
Sweet dew bathes the polar mountain.
Having drunk the wine of long life,
You wander freely; who can know you?
You sit and listen to the stringless tune,
You clearly grasp the mechanism of creation.

-Hundred Character Tablet of Ancestor Lu Dongbin (1)

www.healingdao.com/articl...y_idx.html

looking for online I Ching
i ran across this link
sync

i'll be back
...judih

Gnostradamus
Registered User
(8/12/02 2:05:42 am)

Re: The Three Sluggard Sons
Fascinating piece, most relevant.

Below are two links for the I Ching. Hope this helps. The first link employs a questionable translation.

littlestcat.com/iching/Table.html

xinchong.org/iching/Tao/i.html#2

Looking forward to your reply,


Gnostradamus

judih 
Registered User
(8/12/02 10:19:49 am)
Re: The Three Sluggard Sons
Above k'un The receptive earth
Below k'un The receptive earth

Only broken lines
Primal power of yin
Devotion
Image earth

The receptive completes the Creative
the son completes the action of the King, the one who is planning for a future without him.

In reality the receptive equals the creative, yet this is not so. There must be devotion.

Two equal partners in this energy cycle, yet the movement, the flow depends on the devotion of the son.

The receptive is lead
And activated by the Creative.


It's as if the son is being hanged by the will of the Greater (the father); he allows himself to be passive to the action of his father.

His task is to let himself be led
meeting fate with an attitude of acceptance


(direct quote from the Wilhelm translation)

The purity of the moment may not be spoiled by fictional hates and favoritism

This is the act of being given a knife...a chance, an opportunity, a gift out of nowhere, yet, the purity of his moment of devotion will not be spoiled by latching onto a chance handout.

If a man is free of vanity,
He is able to conceal his abilities
He enters public life with restraint


what more restrained way is there than to enter public life as a victim of a hanging?

He completes his works so that they may bear fruit in the future

the son is willing to be hanged - like a piece of fruit from the hanging tree.
The King completes his choice of successor, so that his kingdom may flourish without him

....judih

Edited by: judih  at: 8/12/02 10:30:01 am
Gnostradamus
Registered User
(8/12/02 12:40:15 pm)

Re: The Three Sluggard Sons
In order to determine the proper triads, we have to examine the events in exacting detail.



Let us zoom in on the first example. The ole drop in the eye. Visualize
it for me.

------------------------------------------------------------
The eldest said, then, father, the kingdom is mine, for I am so idle
that if I lie down to rest, and a drop falls in my eye, I will not open
it that I may sleep.
------------------------------------------------------------

The son is lying on his back. A drop falls into his closed eye. The drop
of water fills the depression of the eye, forming a pool. Beneath this
pool, the eyelid is closed over the eyeball.


\........LAKE............../
|____/ EYE \______|


The pool of water corresponds with the trigram of Lake. The water is
seen as Lake because it is contained within the hollow of the eye's
socket.

Beneath the Lake is the eye. But what is the eye?

Your eye is the lamp of your body. When your eyes are focused, your
entire body is also full of light. But when they are evil, your body
also is full of darkness.
Luke 11:34

The eye is the lamp of the body. So the eye is Fire.

Lake over Fire is:
------------------------------------------------------------
49 Revolution (Molting)

The Judgment

Revolution. On your own day
You are believed.
Supreme success,
Furthering through perseverance.
Remorse disappears.

The Image

Fire in the lake: the image of Revolution.
Thus the superior man
Sets the calendar in order
And makes the seasons clear.

------------------------------------------------------------
The second said, father, the kingdom belongs to me, for I am so idle
that when I am sitting by the fire warming myself, I would rather let my
heel be burnt off than draw back my leg.
------------------------------------------------------------

Here we have Fire and the heel of the foot. The foot is primarily in contact with Earth.

So we have Fire and outside of the Fire we have Earth, which translates to Earth over Fire.
------------------------------------------------------------
Earth over Fire is:

36 Darkening of the Light

The Judgment

Darkening of the Light. In adversity
It furthers one to be persevering.

The Image

The light has sunk into the earth:
The image of Darkening of the Light.
Thus does the superior man live with the great mass:
He veils his light, yet still shines.

------------------------------------------------------------
The third said, father, the kingdom is mine, for I am so idle that if I
were going to be hanged, and had the rope already round my neck, and any
one put a sharp knife into my hand with which I might cut the rope, I
would rather let myself be hanged than raise my hand to the rope.
------------------------------------------------------------

Here we have a son being hanged. This gives of wood/wind for the rope, the tree, and the breath, and mountain for the knife. Mountain is usually associated with nails, tools of metal and items with the property of causing something to stop. Here the knife can cut the rope and stop the hanging.


Yes, so Wind/Wood and the knife. The knife is outside, while the wind
is trapped within.
------------------------------------------------------------
18 Work on What Has Been Spoiled [Decay]

The Judgment

Work on What Has Been Spoiled
Has supreme success.
It furthers one to cross the great water.
Before the starting point, three days.
After the starting point, three days.

The Image

The wind blows low on the mountain:
The image of Decay.
Thus the superior man stirs up the people
And strengthens their spirit.

Six at the beginning means:

Setting right what has been spoiled by the father.
If there is a son,
No blame rests upon the departed father.
Danger. In the end good fortune.

-----------------------------------------------

In each case, the resulting hexagrams reveals what type of reign each son would have if given the opportunity to rule.

The first son's reign would bring about a revolution. The second son would be a lame king, who would hide his enlightenment and allow darkness to spread, while the third son would work on what had been spoiled by the father.

Surely the king doesn't want a revolution to occur as that would mean the end of the dynasty. The hexagram gives the specifics. Outwardly would be Lake: a time of joy and attraction, while inwardly there would be Fire: attention and awareness. So the hexagram likely foretells a reign of pageantry that would fail to distract from the problems of misrule.

Each hexagram is also described in the form of torture. The first was the gentlest, that of water torture. The second son would usher in a reign of cruelty. The burning of feet was one form of torture used against the Templars by the torturers of King Philip the Fair of France. This did indeed cause the enlightened to go underground.

The third son would hang his enemies, but always leaving the victim the opportunity to cut the rope to agree to some condition. This son would work on the rot that had set in during his father's rule, when laziness was considered a virtue.

judih 
Registered User
(8/12/02 8:11:20 pm)
Re: The Three Sluggard Sons
cool

........judih

intimate knowledge of I Ching
wonderful use of earth, water, fire, ah...metal, even metal is included in the third son's example and air?

thank you Gn for the explanation ...from 2D to 3 maybe 4 D including future time

the King may have had a rotten reign, but he knew how to choose what was required. So, the individual is the conduit for what must be.

...judih

Gnostradamus
Registered User
(8/13/02 2:46:39 am)

Re: The Three Sluggard Sons
Yes, even metal. It is the most questionable of the attributes. If you remember in the Dancing Princesses there was, supposedly, a nail in the wall which caught on the youngest's dress. Nail in wall gave mountain in wood, which fit the situation perfectly, gradual development, a woman going to marry and so on.

Nail to mountain is not that great of a jump, while knife to mountain does seem a greater leap, but what of nail to knife to mountain. I have to assign something to the knife and out of earth, water, fire, wind/wood, lake, thunder, heaven and mountain only the last one comes close. Maybe earth, but earth is more like clay and mountain is like rock. Plus, for some reason, I associate mountains with mining for metal ores.

As I have said, this attribution is the most questionable, but it has also led to the most remarkable of readings. I am not sure if metal is mountain, but nail and knife surely are.

Let's look at another tale about three brothers.

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