(7/30/02 8:12:03 am)
| Markets for analysis of Fairy Tales|
I have developed what I feel to be a unique method for examining fairy tales. However I have no idea as to where to present my findings. I do not possess a university degree so I imagine that the academic journals are out.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Edited by: Gnostradamus at: 7/30/02 1:52:11 pm
(7/30/02 1:11:10 pm)
| Not necessarily ...|
Actually, most academic journals will consider articles from independent scholars. You might try Marvels & Tales: The Journal of Fairy Tale studies, Parabola, Mythosphere, or Extrapolations, all of which are academic journals with fantastic leanings. You might try s-f magazines such as Realms of Fantasy or F & SF. If your theory is psychoanalytic in nature, some of the magazines or journals in that field would probably be happy to consider it ... You could see if there's enough to your theory for a monologue or book, and run it by some of the New Age publishers like Weisers, or try academic presses (if it can be used by an academic, I don't think that it much matters if the author is him or herself an academic). I know that I, for one, would love to hear more ...
(7/30/02 1:48:08 pm)
I had the pleasure of corresponding a few months back with William Doty, editor for Mythosphere, when I was researching such publications. Here is what he told me about the journal:
"the journal was trashed when T&F consumed the earlier publishers, and I've had no luck whatsoever in finding a new publisher, just about ready to give it up forever!"
We haven't written ina while, so I'm not sure if it was picked up by a new publisher. But if it hasn't, and anyone can recommend a publisher for it, send it on and I'll forward the info to him. (I'll also check in to see how things are going and post an update.)
My dream journal is still in the works as well:
(7/31/02 9:42:00 am)
| Fairy Tales as works of Objective Art|
Thank you for your most informative reply. Allow me to take a bit more of your time so that I might explain my approach to the fairy tale. Essentially, I treat fairy tales as works of objective art. The term 'objective art' was employed by the mystic G.I. Gurdjieff.
The following is an excerpt from the book "In Search of the Miraculous (Fragments of an Unknown Teaching)" by P.D. Ouspensky. It is his record of G.I. Gurdjieff's response to a question by one of those present about art as a philosophical language.
"I do not know of which art you speak, . . . ."
"You must first of all remember that there are two kinds of art, one quite different from the other -- objective art and subjective art. All that you know, all that you call art, is subjective art, that is, something that I do not call art at all because it is only objective art that I call art."
"To define what I call objective art is difficult first of all because you ascribe to subjective art the characteristics of objective art, and secondly because when you happen upon objective works of art you take them as being on the same level as subjective works of art."
"I will try to make my idea clear. You say -- an artist creates. I say this only in connection with objective art. In relation to subjective art: that with him 'it is created.' You do not differentiate between these, but this is where the whole difference lies. Further you ascribe to subjective art an invariable action, that is you expect works of subjective art to have the same reaction on everybody. You think, for instance, that a funeral march should provoke in everyone sad and solemn thoughts and that any dance music, a komarinsky for instance, will provoke happy thoughts. But in actual fact this is not so at all. Everything depends upon association. If on a day that a great misfortune happens to me I hear some lively tune for the first time this tune will evoke in me sad and oppressive thoughts for my whole life afterwards. And if on a day when I am particularly happy I hear a sad tune, this tune will always evoke happy thoughts. And so with everything else."
"The difference between objective art and subjective art is that in objective art the artist really does 'create,' that is he makes what he intended, he puts into his work whatever ideas and feelings he wants to put into it. And the action of this work upon men is absolutely definite; they will, of course each according to his own level, receive the same ideas and the same feelings that the artist wanted to transmit to them. There can be nothing accidental either in the creation or in the impressions of objective art."
"In subjective art everything is accidental. The artist, as I have already said, does not create; with him 'it creates itself.' This means that he is in the power of ideas, thoughts, and moods which he himself does not understand and over which he has no control whatever. They rule him and they express themselves in one form or another. And when they have accidentally taken this or that form, this form just as accidentally produces on man this or that action according to his mood, tastes, habits, the nature of the hypnosis under which he lives, and so on. There is nothing invariable; nothing is definite here. In objective art there is nothing indefinite."
"Would not art disappear in being definite in this way?" asked one of us. "And is not a certain indefiniteness, elusiveness, exactly what distinguishes art from, let us say, science? If this indefiniteness is taken away, if you take away the fact that the artist himself does not know what he will obtain or what impression his work will produce on people, it will then be a 'book' and not art."
"I do not know what you are talking about," said G. "We have different standards: I measure the merit of art by its consciousness and you measure it by its unconsciousness . We cannot understand one another. A work of objective art ought to be a 'book' as you call it; the only difference is that the artist transmits his ideas not directly through words or signs or hieroglyphs, but through certain feelings which he excites consciously and in an orderly way, knowing what he is doing and why he does it."
"Legends," said one of those present, "have been preserved of statues of gods in ancient Greek temples, for example the statue of Zeus at Olympia, which produced upon everybody a definite and always identical impression."
"Quite true," said G., "and even the fact that such stories exist shows that people understood that the difference between real and ureal art lay precisely in this, an invariable or else an accidental action."
"Can you not indicate other works of objective art?" "Is there anything that it is possible to call objective in contemporary art?" "When was the last objective work of art created?" Nearly everyone present began to put these and similar questions to G.
"Before speaking of this," said G., "principles must be understood. If you grasp the principles you will be able to answer these questions yourselves. But if you do not grasp them nothing that I may say will explain anything to you. It was exactly about this that it was said -- they will see with their eyes and will not perceive, they will hear with their ears and will not understand."
(7/31/02 5:42:57 pm)
| Re: Fairy Tales as works of Objective Art|
Fairy tales are constructed according to a rigid formula. The tales were written in order to convey a specific message to those who possess the proper keys and understand where and how to apply them. I certainly do not claim to have cracked more than a couple of tales myself and those were mostly by luck.
The two which I have had the most success with are The Twelve Dancing Princesses and The Wonderful Musician. Each employees an entirely different method of encryption. The tales can be found at the following two links.
If you were to choose one, I would do my best to demonstrate the manner in which information has been concealed within the narrative.
(8/2/02 4:19:03 am)
| Re: Mythosphere...|
Just heard from Mr. Doty- the journal has not yet been picked up by a publisher and he is still looking. Anyone have any ideas of journal publishers that might be a good target? I would hate to see it be lost forever!
As for selecting a fairy tale to analyze, I'm not as familiar with the second, so perhaps you could explain the 12 Dancing Princesses for us?
Edited by: Kerrie at: 8/2/02 5:42:53 am
(8/8/02 3:35:29 am)
| Re: G and fairy tales|
Interesting. I just tuned into this thread of yours. I once analyzed the characters of Hamlet according to the enneagram.
That was many years ago, and yet here you are involved in pursuing the use of this esoteric treasure house. And quoting Ouspensky.
Round and round the spiral continues
(8/8/02 2:46:56 pm)
| Re: G and fairy tales|
It may interest you to know that the next tale employs triads.
You are no doubt familiar with the three forces: Active, Passive, and Neutralizing. The order in which these three forces occur determines the nature of the triad. For example, the order Active, Passive, and Neutralizing results in the triad of Growth, while Passive, Active,and Neutralizing is Refinement.
These qualities can be mapped onto the elements contained in the next tale to be examined, The Wonderful Musician.
(8/8/02 6:51:06 pm)
| Re: G and fairy tales|
and the next tale will unfold with your help?
edit: i have seen the tale
Edited by: judih at: 8/8/02 7:00:52 pm