(7/24/02 2:33:52 am)
I'm looking for Once and Future King and Sleeping King myths and
folktales from as many different nations as possible. There's Arthur,
obviously, and Barbarossa, but can anyone think of any others? I'm
particularly interested in any that are associated with Russia.
Thanks for the help!
(7/24/02 2:54:19 am)
I am immediately reminded not so much of well known sleeping kings
but of how such myths have survived in the modern context. When
the modern revolutionary Che Guevara was being hunted by the army,
his stature had already reached into the mythic. After the army
killed him they put his body on display for days, took photographs
etc all to prove that he was a man and that he had been killed.
But the general concensus among the peasants as they filed past
his body was to shake their head and say, "oh no, that's not
him--he's up there in the mountains, waiting for the right time
to come back." I think you can see some of the same logic occuring
now with the illusive (perhaps dead?) Osama bin Laden.
I think I have some notes on a Serbian epic with a sort of King
Arthur hero...it'll take me a day or two to hunt them down.
(7/24/02 3:18:15 am)
your point about contemporary king-figures and the belief in their
survival is a good one, and one I hadn't considered. I must go away
now and have a think.
Oh, and the Serbian myth would be really helpful - thanks!
(7/25/02 9:52:29 am)
| this maybe?
I found the citation for the book I read a couple of years ago--it
was an interesting structuralist study on epic. "Immanent Art:
From Structure to Meaning in Traditional Oral Epic." by John
Miles Foley (U of Indiana Press 1991). I remember the theoretical
argument, but I am not as sure of particulars of the epic he used.
I am fairly certain he used a Serbian hero epic (that had the sleeping
king motif...) If I can get over to the library I'll try and double
check...if you have access to a university library you might want
to peel at it...
and have you tried the A-T tale type index yet? or the motif index?
(7/26/02 4:59:42 am)
We've got a copy of the motif index in our local Uni library - I
shall sneak in and take a look, thanks!
Thanks for the reference, too, I'll see if I can dig it up.
(7/26/02 7:00:17 am)
| Sleeping King
I put one in my novel THOMAS THE RHYMER (which I mention just in
case Anyone ever wants to cover the topic in a Folk Roots column
(7/26/02 3:41:04 pm)
| once & future/sleeping
aren't there several native american myths that deal
with this subject? i'm not sure if that is what you are
looking for.if it is i could try to find some of the things i
(7/26/02 6:46:25 pm)
| Re: once &
Jesus? Siddahartha? Any kind of spiritual awakening would pertain
to this as well.
The Terminator? Not that I know anything about the Arnold movies
but didn't he popularize the saying "I'll be bach" er
"back"? I'sn't he a sort of self-regerating never dying
god type figure?
(7/29/02 1:06:51 pm)
| Native American
Rachael - Native American myths would be really useful, thanks.
(7/29/02 1:07:48 pm)
| El Cid
Please put the Spanish epic poem El Cid on your list. El Cid was
a warrior in the conflict with the Moors in Spain. He has himself
tied to his horse so that should he be killed in battle, he will
still appear to be alive and leading his troops. Of course, he,
his horse and his body all disappear in the great battle. The legend
has grown around his disappearance and possible return.
(7/29/02 1:13:10 pm)
| "I'll be
Jesus - check. Thanks.
Siddaharthe - ah-ha! Thanks also.
Arnold Schwarzeneger - Hmm. Not quite so much what I'm after, but
"That King Arthur, he can't be bargained with. He can't be
reasoned with. He doesn't feel pity, or
remorse, or fear. And he absolutely will not stop, ever!"
Sarah Conner's kid is a decent future king, though...
(7/29/02 5:19:58 pm)
| returning kings
off the top of my head there's quetzalcoatl (aztec)
,the ghost dance which was supposed to bring everyone (native american)
back.also i think it was either tecumseh or crazy horse that was
(foggy on that one,though).also (hopi maybe) a white
brother who will return.i will look through my things &
try to come up with clearer info.
(8/16/02 12:17:14 am)
Romanian Once and Future King
The real story of Vlad the Impaler certainly follows a type of once
and future king-dom. In the end, the "what happened next"
writing even says that the people of Romania still remember the
peace he brought and some await his return. Arthur to Dracula was
never a pair I thought to see together, but hey. It seems to work
on some levels.
Good Luck with the search,