(9/23/02 10:17:32 am)
| gaming, design of games/stories for role play, "Doom&q|
I am not sure I have the words right yet, but at a recent book expo, one of my fellow keynoters pointed out a young woman with a sort of 'incredibly aggrivated all the tme' persona and said she was "a game writer." I was not able to have time to approach her, and wondered...I thought maybe this meant a person who provided the schema and content for 'a game'?
Can you tell me if in the jargon, if gaming is the same thing as playing a game? Can you tell me what is role-play game or gaming? Are they the same? It seems that one enters a story and becomes part of a story? Is that right? I have now gotten to the part in my ongoing work about the motives of the Columbine shooters where I am needing to speak also to someone who is familiar with 'the game' (I think that is the right way to call it?) Doom. If youare that person or know anyone who is, will you let me know?
Thank you for trying to help,
(9/23/02 12:40:28 pm)
| Roleplaying and Computer Games|
Doom is/was an early and famous first person shooter game. It was a computer game (although it has been produced for other game systems). In it, I believe you play a military person who is sent to Hell to fight demons. For some screen shots, have a look at this site (click the thumbnails to enlarge):
Your disgruntled looking young woman could have been a game designer OR she could have been a writer for role-playing games. These two things are very different, although there is some overlap.
Here is a link to the history of Dungeons & Dragons, the (arguably) most famous of the role-playing games. I wish I could have found a article that included more about later games, particularly White Wolf (especially since you want to know more about gothic culture), but this will give you a solid foundation:
When I say "gaming," I think role playing and not computer games.
Again, hope this helps.
(9/23/02 12:49:54 pm)
| One more thing|
I just wanted to point out that the main difference between a computer game and a roleplaying game is (usually) only one person plays a computer game while a group plays a roleplaying game. In roleplaying, many people participate in and change the outcome of the story.
HOWEVER, I believe that Doom can also be played over the internet (head to head, as they say). This allows strangers to compete against one another and test their skills.
(9/23/02 12:57:45 pm)
| Roleplaying resources|
I'd tend to suspect the person in question was a roleplaying game writer, for the entirely arbitrary reason that while I know of authors who've also done game work (Jo Walton, Kij Johnson), I don't know of any who've done much compter-game work. Could be wrong.
While I'm not sure if they'll have introductory explanations of the hobby itself, I'm finding by the example of SurLaLune itself that there's nothing like immersing onself in the middle of an ongoing conversation to learn about a subject. With that in mind, here are some worthwhile sites on the (pencils & dice)roleplaying game hobby:
And since Wizards of the Coast, the current publisers of Dungeons & Dragons, are still the industry's 900-pound gorilla, and I think they may have introductory stuff there anyway, try--
Hope these are useful.
(9/23/02 4:15:57 pm)
I believe the story for Doom was a marine sent to military installations on the moons phobos and deimos to deal with an alien race that managed to get to the galaxy via a failed military experiment in gate technology(ala the fly).
In the series of books, Knee Deep in the Dead onward, the marine and his subordinate(a woman) are fairly heroic, if a tad angry. The series was young adult if I remember correctly, the bindings on them were terrible.
I believe Half-Life would be more in line with the time of Columbine. More realistic weapons as well as explosives that could be set to detonate on a trigger.
All of these are considered corridor style first person shooters. You see through the perspective of your character, the gun sticks out a bit into your field of vision. Its odd how the map styles are similar to school buildings. I've heard people comment "The school would make a great team fortress map."
www.white-wolf.com may have some additional information on roleplaying games if your interested, they also have a bit on some things considered gothic.
*sniffle* If this fails to make sense ignore it. I'm getting sick. Darn college germs.
(9/23/02 4:44:09 pm)
I had no idea there was a series of books. Anyway, I went and checked out the plotline:
(9/23/02 5:03:01 pm)
| Doom novels|
IIRC, the _Doom_ novels won some sort of Worst SF Novel award; at any rate, they were based on the game, rather than the reverse.
(9/23/02 6:23:19 pm)
| um, wasnt doom a minor point here?|
i thought the post was concerning "gaming" and role-playing, and Doom was simply...a side note.
not that it matters..
some confusion to pass along:
1stly, "gaming" is just the playing of a game. it could be any game. a "gamer" can be a role-player, or a computer gamer, whatever...
2ndly, some video/computer games claim to be roleplaying games ( i dont believe that Doom is one). to some extent, they are, but they were never able to capture the heart of a real roleplaying game, which is the communal story telling.
3rdly, true roleplaying is a group of people sitting around and telling a communal story in which each person plays a role and is part actor, and part writer. yes, dungeons and dragons is the biggest, and most popular, mostly due to bad press. there are hundreds of these games though. the white-wolf 'world of darkness' games are the best ive seen and played.
who knows? could be plot line writer for games, or could be program writer for games.
(9/23/02 9:52:09 pm)
| amazing helps|
This is very helpful you all.
I am going to try to play Doom. This should be interesting since I am not sure how to. I know this is an incredibly lame question, but do I go buy it, or is there a gateway on the web? Can I play it online by myself? Were you infering when you said more than one could play at a time, that Eric may have had partners to play Doom with on the web? That would be an amazing fact.
I would like to try whatever version of Doom would have been out in Jan-Mar 1999 or earlier. I think it would be good to see it from more inside than outside.
I have been mulling it over mi magico too, that Eric Harris was turned down by the Marines the week before the massacre. And when I went to the site you gave me for the thumbnails blackholly, I was struck by the 'school/hospital " corridor" feel of some of the pathways, and the open braced ceilings (which are similar to those at Columbine now). fherman and morbid oats, those are helpful comments and insights for this pilgrim.
This marine image has given me great pause. Also the idea of the split between the heroes and "the aliens" in Doom; this is some of the shooters language...in video, in writing, in spoken word.
can you tell me what the failed gate technology means?
thank you dearly for helping me understand more
(9/24/02 7:48:40 am)
| More Doom|
Doom I has been out since 1993 and is now shareware. You can download
it off the internet. Doom II and Ultimate Doom must be purchased
(I'm not sure about the dates). Here is a link that tells you where
to get the different games ( www.gamers.org/dhs/misc/obtaindm.html
I think that in 1999, it would have been possible to play with other
partners online. Another aspect of the Doom game that you might
find interesting is that individuals could design their own levels,
which could then be uploaded and played by others. Here's a list
of some of the levels that can be downloaded ( www.gamers.org/~williams/
I found this description of the game: "In Doom, you play a Marine who has to escape from a military base on Mars that has been overrun by demons and various other nasties from hell. With an assortment of weapons at your disposal, you must venture into the maze of corridors and rooms, trying to find a way out, whilst all the time fighting the hellspawn that seek to destroy you." Maybe the aliens were a change for the books?
According to this site ( m1.aol.com/ledmeister/doomtext.htm
), the failed gate resulted from inter-dimensional space travel
experiments that the "United Aerospace Corporation" was
doing on one of Mars' moons. They sent people through the gateways,
who would come back crazy and then blow up. Finally, demons started
to come through the gateways and the moon was overrun.
(9/24/02 8:35:15 am)
Additionaly you could edit the monsters within the game. There should be a fair number of doom mods(altered programs) available on the web.
I enjoy the garfield one myself. :-)
(9/26/02 2:28:16 am)
| Doom |
May I just add a comment that some of the men I know who have played Doom have admitted that they get erections when they played it (I find this very odd). When I was at university I was in the roleplaying society and although Doom is a computer game, rather than a roleplaying game, it still dispels reality by putting the player into the first person role of a soldier.
Although I come from the UK, where guns are not the norm, the "boys" at uni certainly enjoyed the game of Doom. I've played it myself but am hopeless at co-ordinating (plus I'm not keen on violence). The game is definitely one of someone wandering around trying to desparately protect and defend themselves from aliens who are all out to destroy the soldier and the life he has come from.
Some of the later versions of Doom could be played with special joysticks which vibrate and respond when you fire the weapon (it almost pushes you back in your seat with gun recoil effect) which gives even more of a stimuli to the player.
I've followed up this "erection" question with people I know who have shot real guns and apparently some men do get erections when they shoot real guns too! I suppose this is not surprising because firing a gun and ejaculation are similar except one destroys and one can create, but it could be seen as the male ego trying to dominate with the primal impulse to dominate, destroy or create. Young men are not encouraged to spread their seed around - the games may help vent this sexual frustration. Society has taken away the hunter instincts and sex is dangerous today because it can result in reproductions (children) or sexual disease.
Art or killing are the creative and destructive but now the art and death is combined in these games which are created through art but deal in death.
Just some meandering thoughts.
(9/26/02 3:27:17 am)
You may want to go back and ask the people you know if they get the same effect doing anything else. Doom isn't very mind intensive and when a man's mind wanders you can guess what he thinks about. Some men get erections while driving,using the microwave, or boiling water...
(9/26/02 6:36:37 pm)
| Re: Doom |
God, the few times I've tried to play it, I just get dizzy, spinning around all the time looking for scary bad guys. Then I have to go and lie down until the nausea passes. But yeah, excitement from fear or battle conditions, even simulated, excites the body too, yes? In that light, it doesn't surprise me that people get hard and/or wet playing the games.
(9/26/02 9:43:41 pm)
| Re: Doom |
First person shooters make me dizzy too--even watching my husband play them--because of something called the "head bob." I guess its supposed to make it more realistic, but it just makes me seasick.
(9/26/02 11:38:39 pm)
| anecdotal evidences|
I know it sounds odd to a lot of people, but there is a good deal of after-reportage by persons in altered states of consciousness experiencing what is sometimes called "threshold arousal."
Although such would seem ripe as snicker material, it is actually an interesting phenomenon. Highly creative people report experiencing such during the times they are concentrating in the extreme on their work, also. It is said by some current mystics that the same is true when they move into deep meditations. (This may seriously account for some of the intense writings about flagellation and mortification of the body by some of the Catholic saints--in an effort to defeat the involuntary arousal pattern.) This entire effect is a set of stories all in and of itself.
I appreciate your comments about this, even though anecdotal, they are surprising and possibly germane to another paper I am working on about how the half-life of a certain drug popularly prescribed for male adolescents interferes with erective performance, therby potentially undermining developing sense of self. So thank you for your thoughts.