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Author Comment
Unregistered User
(9/22/03 4:55 pm)
A Dead Owl...meaning?
This is a question for those connected to the world of folklore. Today I saw a dead owl. I am very much wrapped up in the world of dreams, folklore, and symbolism and have read about superstitions and animal symbolism but when it happens to you...when folklore and superstition is right there in front of is kind of shocking! These days, when I ask for a message, I get one so I can't say I did not ask for it....Careful what you ask for they say......I love to study religion and culture and have been studying hoodoo lately and today I took a walk to a graveyard where I have been trying to establish a connection with certain people who have passed on. The people I selected make me feel good. Today when I stood by the grave, I asked for a message from the spirits. I wanted to be told whatever they thought I should know and if it was okay to commune with them and if I selected the right people. I also wanted to know if they were safe people to work with. I asked for a message to be told what I needed to know. Like I said, I expect responses these days.....As I left the graveyard, I saw a dead crow laying in the grass. Now, I know that means something because I remember reading the meaning before but I forgot what it is. I know a dead owl is very bad but what about a crow? Can anyone tell me what that means? I hope so... Not only is a crow often a symbol of death and I saw it in a graveyard, a place of death but it is also the autumn equinox. The autumn equinox is the eve before the first day of fall which represents for many a season associated with death.....hope to hear from you....

Registered User
(9/23/03 1:47 pm)
Re: A Dead Owl...meaning?
As a person decendant from First Americans, Bavarian, Welsh, and Irish... and as a Man that has lived and worked in the Woods, on Farms, in Mining Camps and nearly always, in the "out doors", I can give you my opinion:
It means nothing.

The one dead Crow you say is only one of hundreds
that died that morning. Just as the dead Racoon
I saw last week.
There are Dead Humans everywhere, every second
of the day.

While you looked at that dead crow, did you notice
the dead leaves, dead rodents, dead insects, dead
microbs? That one death is a tiny fraction of the
whole. There will not be one second of your life
when some "living thing" does not die.

Death is an natural part of living. Each life gets just
so many units of time and then you physical-ness
returns to the earth. Nothing magical, esoteric or
cryptic about it.

I'm not being critical here, I just telling you what I've
learned over the past 60 years. I'd stop looking for
the mysterious, spiritual world and get on with looking
at life. When you find life, you find true spirits. The
dead have nothing to tell you, can't hurt or help you,
but the living can lift bring you Peace, if you will
embrace them, share with them, listen to them.

Then that that you seek to fulfill the void in your
soul will be revealed you.

Rym Rytr aka WinterElk

Registered User
(9/23/03 2:45 pm)
thoughts on mortality
Despite our differences in heritage, age and gender, RymRytr, I share your response on this, I think. My education has focussed on biology and ecology, and I cannot escape the knowledge that every death is part of a much greater cycle, which endlessly turns and re-turns energy and matter from one purpose to the next, as part of a delicately-balanced whole.

Of course, it is much more difficult to remember this, or to feel heartened by it, when grieving for something, or someone close. At those times (speaking very personally here), while I have derived some comfort from the awful beauty of this eternal cycle, I have been much more warmed by the presence of my own, transient generation of family and friends.

I'm not sure that I'm sorry about this fact, even if it does reflect some lack of faith, or maybe understanding, in me, of hidden, higher things. I am always wary, when acknowledging the unavoidable necessity of death - could I become too cold, too hard, and lose my sense of compassion in admiring the perfection of the cycle? I truly hope this will never happen, even if many true meanings pass me by.


Registered User
(9/23/03 7:11 pm)
Re: thoughts on mortality
I appreciate the responses. It got me thinking more. Some of us find answers within ourselves through observing science and nature. I think nature and science is mysterious, divine and esoteric because I have a tendency to observe the world with the eyes of a poet....One of the greatest joys I have ever experienced is when my neice was born and holding her in my arms when she was just born and the whole process of pregnancy and birth and growth fascinates me. For some people, it is just nature and science.....for others it is mystery and divine and I think that is what makes the world what it is......a place where people are all different. I like to walk in the sunshine as much as I like to walk in graveyards. Perhaps doing this might help to lesson the fear of my own mortality. I think being an english lit major is what may make our view points on things different. I am fascinated by birth as well as I am by the possibility of a spirit world after our physical life is over. I think the divine is in nature and in us and I guess what I am trying to do is find answers to questions within myself by observing nature. For some reason I focussed on the dead crow that day. I suppose it is a form of meditation. I was raised by aethiets. I think my life would not make any sense if I did not observe the world the way I do because a big part of what I do is write poetry.

Registered User
(9/24/03 9:07 am)
Re: thoughts on mortality
You each bring up a further point and for that, I'm grateful.
As to the point where one might be considered to be
unemotional about death, this stems back to the history
of some of the First Americans before the European came,
with Christianity.

Prior to that, "It is a good day to die" (which some Star
Trek TNG author stole from us and put into the mouth
of Mr. Warf {grin}), was a common concept
they had no fear of an unpleasant

Along with the full understanding and acceptance of
Christianity, comes the release from the fear of the
unknown after-death.

Both of these concepts are then for me, reassuring.
I also understand the Atheist point of view (the "A" being
Greek for "no", and "theist" relating to a god), as well
as the anti-theist (anti in Greek pointing toward "in place
of" but commonly today, meaning "against". and the
fence rider, the Agnostic. I belittle neither one no the

[I'd be happy to discuss the concepts
of the relationship, the actual brotherhood of the
Big-Bang Theory and its kinship to BOTH the Evolutionist
and Creationists, based with one of my favOrite things to
do: Suppositional Logic and Argument! Just ask me,
or email me at rymrytr at poetic . com (<-- a good way
to display an email address to avoid SPAM Robots {SEE
the August issue of Consumer Reports}... I apologize
for the long post, off topic Rabbit Trails, etc., but I don't
often find this level of Conceptual Intelligence on the

Anyway, I have no fear of death!

The other point brought up was innertraveler's love of
observance. This is a great thing! Keep it up. Being
interested in all things will make expand one's mind and
experiences. A great basis for being an Author. There
is never anything wrong in seeking.

Expressing yourself in Poetry, written to please yourself,
and without the idea that someone else may or may not
like it, is vastly fulfilling. I struggled for many years, and
failed to write or even try to publish, all because I worried
whether "they" would like it or not. When my first Niece
was in the 1st grade, she had to have a poem to
memorize. I helped her write it. I suddenly found that
if I wrote just to please myself, writing was easy!

So, keep writing, keep listening and above all, keep
true to thyself! Inner Peace is a precious gift.

Rym Rytr (Rhyme Writer)

Registered User
(9/24/03 4:52 pm)
Re: thoughts on mortality
RymRytr, I have sent you a message to your ezboard account (it's very long - my apologies).

I was curious to find out if this would work. If so, that's quite a neat system - it means you don't have to post your email address on the internet to communicate off-board with other registered users - which is another way of avoiding those pesky spammers.

Registered User
(9/24/03 8:55 pm)
Re: thoughts on mortality

Thank You Rym Rytr (Rhyme Writer)
I am a thinker and inner traveler but I am not as well read and knowledgable as I would like to be and I did not know that about the first american's view of death. It sounds like you have more knowledge of history. I think you are right about writing to please yourself . Perhaps this may be a key to some kind of success. I forget who said this but I remember hearing the quote, "follow your bliss" or perhaps the quote from jesus explains it best about observing the lillies..."they neither toil nor spin"......perhaps if you just do what you do, success will follow somehow.......I hope so.....but may be just a nice idea...I don't know.....your last response got me really wondering about something you may know about but it might be too complicated to answer here. How does shamanism fit into Native American history and culture? Perhaps it is too complicated a question but I was just wondering......

Registered User
(9/25/03 1:39 pm)
Re: thoughts on mortality
I will be unable to reply to this until, perhaps Saturday, but
I *will* reply.

I think that you have some positive points and I would enjoy going over whatever, with you. Well all have "life" to share.

Rym Rytr

Registered User
(9/30/03 3:05 pm)
esoteric knowledge
None of us are satisfied with out level of knowledge, if we are "thinkers". Age brings additional wisdom and knowledge, although the two do not always co-exist. You know what you know now, and will know even more, later. But that "later" will not make you any more wise than you are know, generally speaking. What you are, how you act, in what manner you treat and are treated, is the important thing. What you become will modify that, and you yourself, will determine the result.

The "Lily" quote was given to those that said to him, "I can't spend my time following your teachings, I gotta make a living...". He said this to them to say that no matter how hard we strive to gain possessions, we will never be satisfied; content. The Lilies, nature, the earth is what it is because the Creator or creator (be that the influence of an Intelligence or not, depending upon your view of Creation or Evolution), caused their existence to be what it is. The lilies don't get up every morning and buy new petals or put on make-up to re-new themselves. Life is what it is, and the pursuit of "things" stops us from the pursuit of what should make us satisfied with life and be at peace within. The answers you seek and not hidden in dark and mysterious realms, available only to the few. Life has been going on for thousands of years. Look to the information in the hands of the living. Look first at what has been accepted by the most of humanity. Reject what has been overwhelmingly reject for those same thousands of years.

As for Shamans, this is a misquoted word that has become accepted within our current language. A Shaman originally was (I believe) from the Russia’s. A person that always went into a trance-state, to bring about reveal-ance of some mystery.

First Americans rarely did this. It was common, for extremely rare situations, in some groups, but overall, it is a luxury for well-to-do people. The main concern of the man each day was food. It was sometimes necessary to let your children go hungry, in the worst winters, to preserve yourself and your spouse. You could make more children, only if you kept yourself alive.

Then, when there were moments of relaxation, there were the "wise" elderly, who by sheer strength of will and a big chunk of good fortune, live long enough to become elderly. They often had the wisdom to know what brought about healing, good luck in hunting and catching fish, where to look and what to look at, in gathering, where to step and where to NOT put your hands, what you could and could not eat with out killing yourself...

They were called upon to explain the mysteries of life. The established rituals where by knowledge was passed on to those deserving enough to have it. Rituals developed with generations. Grandfather heated a potion before giving it to someone to drink because warm liquid was easier to drink than cold. Great Grandson heated it and added a bit of ceremony because that was what his dad did. His Dad did such and such, because Grandfather had AND Dad added a touch here and there as human will do, to make himself seem more important, more powerful, to the others. Why give away your secrets to every one in the group, when they can come to you instead, bringing respect and maybe a bit of this or that, in exchange?

Religions developed based upon observation and repetition. What worked was kept, added to and the rest discarded. The man or woman with the most healing knowledge became a "medicine" person. In a large group of smaller family groups, a Medicine person may have found the job to be full time.

The young always went to the old with their questions. The wisest of the old became respected and then leaders if there information brought about victory, food and safety. Again ceremony brought about the idea that this person was special because he/she knew some things that the rest didn't.

I've never (this is just me) accepted most teachings on face value. I've always tried to experience the concepts for myself. Test all ideas. When you find the truth, replace what you know, with that. Nothing I know or say makes me better than you. I'm just older and thereby, have had more experiences. I can tell you for sure that it hurts to put 3 stitches in your own finger, but you'd have to try it to know for sure.

As our ancestors did, we must do. Deal with life as it comes. My Great Grandfather helped his wife give birth. He made harness for his team from hides. He killed, butchered and preserved meat. He pulled two of his own teeth. On and on and on. Read about the common history of the common pioneer, the first persons you can find from any culture all the way back to the beginning of time and you will find that you and they are the same.

I don't listen for mysteries in the "dark", I seek knowledge of them by what I can see, in the light!

Unregistered User
(10/1/03 7:51 pm)
Thank you.
Thank you, Rym Rytr.


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