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Paul
WilSorah
Registered User
(7/2/01 5:21:02 pm)
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Fairy tales were the heroine loses her head
Are there any stories were the heroine losses her head or gets stuck with swords? preferably one that ends with her being put back together again, of course.
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Midori
Unregistered User
(7/3/01 3:18:38 am)
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loved to pieces
In a few of the Bluebeard-type tales, I think the youngest sister succeeds in restoring her sisters, who were hacked to death...or maybe she just pulls them out of the fires of hell, which may be the same thing.
The Armless Maiden narratives have some fairly intense versions where the girl has more than her hands or arms cut off: there is an Indian (or Persian?) version where the girl is reduced to a torso and then restored at the end.
And I'll admit, I've used the image before in a novel. Though it was a room full of people at a wedding who all lost their heads, which then wound up on a wall talking nonsense until the heroine arrives and after some difficulty puts the right head back with the right body (it sounds gruesome, but it was really sort of funny...)
I do know of hero narratives where the Hero is cut into a zillion pieces and then restored (usually by the fantastic bride) and one where the Hero is eaten and then vomited up by the Cannibals at the prompting of a female trickster goddess and put back together. And then of course there is the all time favorite, Osiris.
But your best bet on this would be to consult Thompson/Arne motif index and you'd probably come up with what you are looking for.
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Karen
Unregistered User
(7/3/01 11:07:52 pm)
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convenient assemblages
There's also a story in one of Angela Carter's fairy tale collections (I think it might be the second...), where our heroine dismembers a rival and reassembles her as a bathroom cabinet, with the open mouth as the sink (I remember a very nice illustration accompanied it).
The youngest sister manages to reassemble her elders in the Grimms' "Fitcher's Bird".
K.
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Kate
Unregistered User
(7/5/01 9:35:38 am)
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loses her head
Hmmm, I have to say something here! I misread the posting and thought the request (from its title) was for tales where the heroine goes mad.
So, I've been working on gathering tales for an anthology for a few years and . . . that's its theme. (Okay, I probably shouldn't post sutf about in-progress projects, but we are all trustworthy, I know.) I guess this is as good a time as any to ask if any of you have published tales of madness that I might consider. I was going to wait until September but why wait? Anyone? I have room for consideration.
Of course now I am thinking, hm, a collection of tales where the heroine's head is lopped off or someone's dismembered. Much more enticing! More wicked. That could be next!
Kate
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Kate
Unregistered User
(7/5/01 10:41:42 am)
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query
Now that I think about it--any objections if I begin brainstorming an anthology of stories with heads getting lopped? In the last hour, I've done some quick drafting.
(I mean is anyone else doing one such already here.)
Or does it sound too nutty to everyone.
Kate
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Paul
WilSorah
Registered User
(7/5/01 5:09:56 pm)
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Reasons for thread
I think I should have been a little more descriptive as to the motives behind my request. I am an amateur magician, with fairly big show coming up. I am building a trick in which my assistant places her head in a box, gets swords run through the box, then when I open the box, her head will be gone. So, I am looking for a story to use with this. The box has an Egyptian theme, but that is hardly necessary, as any theme could be adapted.
Thanks again to you all.
Paul.
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Midori
Unregistered User
(7/6/01 3:48:16 am)
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With her head tucked underneath her arm
Paul,
Oh my, if your assistant can do all that I am much impressed with the woman. As I read your post I couldn't help but think of that very funny British vaudeville song about Queen Anne Bolyn's ghost haunting the tower of England "with her head tucked underneath her arm, she waaaalks the bloody tower." It's a riot. But the thought of your assistant placing her head in the box as though it were a vase sort of got to me.
As for illusions! Ah, Kate you should look at the history of Magician's tricks played out on women's bodies. I have a friend who is an assistant and (victim) of "the bifercated woman" and the "unbelievable death by impaling."
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Kate
Unregistered User
(7/6/01 11:36:17 am)
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Assistants
I would love to meet this friend--that has long been a dream of mine, to be a magician's assistant!
Any reading suggestions?
I think this subject might relate in a very, very sideways manner to something in a novel I'm working on now--there's some vaudeville in it and a 17c wild auction, as well as other strangenesses.
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Midori
Unregistered User
(7/6/01 1:31:14 pm)
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Magician's assistant
Kate,
You would like her! She's an english composition 101 instructor by day, a magician's assistant by night. And what a transformation; by day tall, very slim and scholarly looking with her glasses, a night glamorous and elegant...and still tall which makes her ability to do the illusions that much more unthinkable. And I need to correct the name of the illusion" it's "Impaled Beyond Belief!". Just try saying that with a straight face. I am trying to get her to come on board as she also writes wonderful short stories and she is the person to give you the book titles. (although perhaps Paul also some suggestions).
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Kate
Unregistered User
(7/6/01 2:53:06 pm)
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Magician's Assistant
Midori,
Is this in Tucson? I spend time there every year with another writer. Perhaps we could see your friend's performance. I used to teach comp in Tucson too. But you may be elsewhere entirely . . .
This friend sounds enviable in many ways! (Speaking as a short, unglamorous, unmysterious person.)
If she writes stories, I'd love to see any that maybe has a theme of dismemberment in it for the anthology I've been compiling with tales of losing one's head. I think from this discussion--unless anyone objects--I'm going to make it both literal and figurative thematically (a 'losing your head' motif). And, if you have anything. Or know anyone who'd like to send for consideration. I'm using previously published work mostly but will also consider unpublished work.
Kate
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Chris K
Unregistered User
(7/8/01 12:20:44 pm)
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lost heads and magic assistants
Hi. I have to first thank Midori for the cool things she's said about me, and for telling me about this site. (Although I don't think I'm mysterious, I might just be around myself too much!)
Paul, I know the illusion you are talking about. (I believe it was even featured on one of those awful Fox "Secrets Revealed" shows.) I'm not much help in the fairy tale dept. I only know of Grimms' "The Maiden Without Hands." I love Washington Irving's "The Adventure of the German Student," although that story might work better with a guillotine or Lester Lake Chopper. There are the famous accounts of the impossible "Indian rope trick" where the magician flings a rope into the air that becomes like a pole, has his assistant climb up then either follows with a sword or throws one up and body parts scatter to the ground. The magician then picks them up and places then in a basket and the assistant comes out restored. The magician I work for uses the Hindu basket and a story about a powerful magician that comes to town and mesmerizes one of the youths to follow him and do his bidding. We also use "the girl without a middle" with an Egyptian scene. I don't know if this helps, but I have to say I admire your willingness to set up the illusion with a story. I think too many magicians now miss the opportunity to really "sell" the illusion and go for the loud music and posing. (As you know the "magic" sometimes only takes seconds.)
Thanks also for your enthusiasm, Kate. It made the last few days of an 11 day run more bearable! Alas, we are up here in Wisonsin, but we have traveled all over. If you are ever up this way, let me know. We do a big theatre show for Halloween every year. It's only one of a handful and was written about in MAGIC magazine.
If you are intestersted in the history of magic, the books to look for are Melbourne Christopher's, The History of Magic and James Randi's Conjuring.
I love your anthology idea!!! (I'm working on a collection of short stories based on titles of magic props.) It's a great idea to combine the figurative and literal meanings!
Well, I rambled on too much for a first posting.
Bye for now,
Chris K.
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Kate
Unregistered User
(7/9/01 10:24:50 am)
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Magic etc.
Dear Chris,
Thanks so much for the reading suggestion. And I can't wait to see your short story collection someday. What a great organizing principle. So wonderful. Your paragraph on various tales and their functions in magicians' tricks reveals how good your collection will probably be.
I think your idea of "The Girl Without Hands" as a sort of magic trick/enactment is great. Of course it would be pretty creepy for people who know the 'real' tale behind the tale (a father's advances on his daughter). Do you know Marina Warner's version of the tale? I saw it reprinted recently as part of, I think, her introduction to the recent collection of essays about Angela Carter. It's lovely. For some reason that tale has always given me a 'puppet show' feeling (does that sound insane or what). Sort of like the show in "The Double Life of Veronique." I'd love to see it staged in any way.
I am curious--is the "girl without a middle' the name of a common magic trick, or is it a story? (Sorry to be ignorant.)
If you ever feel like posting a schedule when you go on your next run, that would be great. And I will certainly try to track your show down if I'm ever in Wisconsin. I am so incredibly intrigued. How did you get in this line of work?
Kate
p.s. Welcome to the board, and don't worry; you were not rambling.
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Kerrie
Registered User
(7/11/01 2:02:49 pm)
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Re: Fairy tales were the heroine loses her head
I can't seem to remember the name of the tale or the author (I've read so many short stories lately!), but I recently read one where a young musician stumbles upon a dead girl, and through a series of unfortunate nightmares, dismembers and puts her back together into a new form (I don't want to spoil it, as it's a wonderful tale that builds on the suspense). Does anyone remember which it is? I can't remember if it was in one of Jane's collections, if it was mentioned in a post.
Wait! I found it! It was a post in the Fairy Tales and Folklore Writers' Group:
The Twa Sisters (short story, based on the ballad) posted by JenStClair.
pub25.ezboard.com/fsurlal...D=11.topic
Here's the ballad it's based on:
www.contemplator.com/folk4/twasist.html
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Chris K
Unregistered User
(7/15/01 10:51:31 am)
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heads up
Kate,
Thanks for your response. I must have the PG version. I will look for Marina Warner's!
The "Girl without a Middle" is a magic trick where the assistant goes into a cabinet and three doors open for her head, middle and legs. And you guessed it, when you open the door for her middle, there is nothing there. It is not a common illusion, but most magic tricks have been around a long time. Sometimes they are just "updated."
I got started by working with a magician on a product promotion, that knew another magician that was looking for assistants. Little did I know what I was getting myself in to! (literally)
Thanks for your interest. I'll definately keep you posted!
Chris K.
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janeyolen
Unregistered User
(7/15/01 9:36:36 pm)
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HELP
I have lost my head! Actually, I have lost Midori's email address.
Jane
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Midori
Unregistered User
(7/16/01 4:25:39 am)
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Girl in the middle
Jane,
Since I've received mail from you this morning, I am assuming you found your head. (in the cabinet? the third drawer of the dresser? sitting in the hutch next to your grandmother's crystal? Oh those pesky magicians. Some women just hunt for their shoes under the bed, but the mother of a magician hunts for the pieces of her body every morning...Christine, is that why magicians never seem to marry? No wife wants to wonder whose hands are these where mine should be?)
Kate, I wonder if I could ask of you your email address as well? Christine wanted to get you on their magic show mailing list and as I am teaching this year I would love to ask you off board for advice from time to time (especially about film and fairy tales). If you wouldn't mind sending me a quick email c/o Mardelle Kunz at endicottstudio@earthlink.net, she will forward your note to me. And after writing the silly comments above, I'm thinking if you are doing an anthology on dismemberment (and lord, the fun one can have with that one word!) I would love to contribute a "piece" (groan...sorry it really is *that* sort of morning for me.)
M
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Eowilla
Unregistered User
(8/4/01 10:54:51 pm)
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maiden with heads
Reading around here I was reminded of the Oz books, though whether or not they are fairy tales is not settled in the thread about the first one.
In Ozma of Oz Dorothy meets the woman with cabinets of beautiful
heads which she changes at will, 30 heads, one for each day of the
month. The on line text is here.
I went to the best page for the description, in my opinion, though
news of that character starts a few pages before. She's taken a
fancy to Dorothy's and will take it and give Dorothy one of her
beautiful cast offs in return. Dorothy will be rescued by Ozma in
their first meeting in the series.
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