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Author
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Comment
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Claudia
Unregistered User
(3/6/02 4:25:06 am)
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Dragon myths?
I'm looking into dragon myths and legends, worldwide. Did some online looking but need some more detailed info. Do you have any suggestions on good resources? I started writing dragon poems and realized how little I know about this "species" as soon as I started.
Thanks! Claudia
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cloudshaper
Registered User
(3/7/02 12:02:08 am)
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Re: Dragon myths?
That's a VERY broad topic, dragons appear in the mythology of almost every culture on the planet. Could you narrow down what type of image you are looking for? Wise, holy, powerful, greedy, evil, ageless, a force of nature, or misunderstood endangered species? There are many great dragon stories.
I just picked up a nice anthology of contemporary dragon tales called
"A Dragon-Lover's Treasury of the Fantastic", edited by
Margaret Weis, which is full of explorations of "dragon nature"
by some of the best authors in the fantasy genre. You might start
there.
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janeyolen
Unregistered User
(3/7/02 4:23:42 am)
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ahem
You could look at my HERE THERE BE DRAGONS which has dragon poems, dragon stories--and historical dragonlore tidbits.
Jane
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erzebet
Registered User
(3/7/02 11:50:05 am)
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Re: ahem
Jane,
I just got and read your retelling of Tam Lin and loved it.
Dragons reminded me of this, as Tam turns into a great serpent, as you well know.
cheers,
Erzebet
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cloudshaper
Registered User
(3/7/02 2:40:41 pm)
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Re: ahem
*blush*
Sorry Jane, I have your book too, but it has been a while since
I read it, didn't even think of it! Should have been first in my
mind.
This site has a great dragon book link - (including Jane's)
www.draconian.com/home/frameset.htm
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Claudia
Unregistered User
(3/7/02 4:11:33 pm)
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dragoning
Dear Cloud--
I want to write poems about dragons from many cultures... I am just realizing how huge the subject is! Then there is a fine line between dragon-like worms and serpent-like dragons... Having grown up on Smaug it's amazing how dragons transmute over time and place...
Claudia
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Jess
Unregistered User
(3/7/02 6:11:27 pm)
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Dragons
Claudia,
If you live near a big city in the U.S. chances are there is a Chinese cultural center or museum near you that has discussions about the place dragons played in Chinese culture. If you live near Phoenix, there is a display of Chinese art - including a lot of dragon art - at the Phoenix Art museum right now. Just a thought.
Jess
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Carrie
Unregistered User
(3/8/02 7:39:42 am)
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Phoenix
Jess,
Are you here in Phoenix?
Carrie
CARRIE.MINER@asu.edu
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Jess
Unregistered User
(3/8/02 7:40:35 am)
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Dragons for inspiration
Claudia,
I find that art is a great inspiration for writing - visual inputs. Hence, my suggestion. There are so many great dragon stories. FYI, the first Chinese dragons were sort of serpentine, too, in appearance so I think you are onto something with your serpent/dragon connection.
I have noticed with dragon websites that they seem to focus on dragon stories from one region. Pity really since dragons are so universal. I haven't read Jane's book (but will look for it now that I know about it - with her 200 books or so, I have a hard time knowing about all of them), but I am wondering if she or someone else can answer whether dragons in Western Europe pre-date oriental influence.
Oh, and I believe there was an article a few years back in the National Geographic about the potential inspiration that early dinosaur finds in central China might have had on these myths.
Jess
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Kerrie
Registered User
(3/8/02 9:40:49 am)
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Speaking of Phoenix...
Does anyone know if there's a relation between the phoenix and the dragon, since they both relate to fire?
Two other fire related creatures you may want to take into consideration (for inspiration, anyway) are the Salamanders and Djinn, or Genies. I don't have any of my books with me right now, but can look up more if you like.
Sugarplum dreams,
Kerrie
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Jess
Unregistered User
(3/8/02 11:23:25 am)
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Dragons and Phoenix
Kerrie,
On one of the websites I was looking at regarding dragons, it discussed the importance of the Phoenix too in Chinese culture. This was a little known fact to me! I will see if I can pull it back up. I think is was actually a China sponsered site.
With two sick kids, I have a few minutes to just investigate.
Jess
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Jess
Unregistered User
(3/8/02 11:30:38 am)
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Dragons and Phoenix
Kerrie,
This url is not authoritative , but it is an interesting start anyway. It is from one of those travel sites, but chances are there is more to this.
www.chinavista.com/experi...ragon.html
Jess
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Jess
Unregistered User
(3/8/02 11:39:17 am)
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Dragons
Carrie,
No, I only wish. Seattle area. I started my dragon search looking at the Wing Luke Museum and SAM (Seattle Art Museum) sites. From there I noticed that Boston had a recent exhibit and Phoenix was in the midst of an exhibit on Chinese art with fabulous dragon art.
I do have lots of family in the Phoenix/Flagstaff areas though, so it is inevitable that I will get down that way again. Perhaps we could get together then.
Jess
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cloudshaper
Registered User
(3/8/02 10:16:59 pm)
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Re: Dragons
www.folklegend.com/article1070.html
another interesting article
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Jess
Unregistered User
(3/11/02 9:14:33 am)
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Dragon myths
I just happened on a little tidbit while reading this weekend that I thought might interest you. Pope Gregory XIII was responsible for developing the Gregorian calendar that we use today. In the year 1582, he "adjusted" the calendar by doing away with 10 days in October, and adding leap years. This would ensure that certain celestial dates "landed" properly. One reaction to Pope Gregory's change was an outcry that he was trying to confuse the date for the ultimate end of the world and that it was a trick of the Antichrist. Evidence of this fact was that Gregory had a dragon on his coat of arms.
Jess
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Jess
Unregistered User
(3/11/02 12:50:01 pm)
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Dragons
If you want to see a copy of the coat of arms, please go to the following url:
www.ibiblio.org/expo/vati...ient12.jpg
Jess
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Richard
Parks
Registered User
(3/12/02 7:41:49 am)
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Re: Speaking of Phoenix...
Kerrie, your question about the relation of dragon and phoenix reminded me of an exhibit of clothing from imperial china (Han dynasty). It was a massive cloth and jewelled headdress done in the shape of a phoenix, along with the explanation that the phoenix was considered the symbol of the Empress just as the five-taloned dragon was the symbol of the Emperor. The two were often shown as a pair for obvious reasons.
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Carrie
Unregistered User
(3/12/02 8:00:06 am)
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Phoenix
Richard,
I find that fascinating (a Phoenix for an Empress) especially since there is only one Phoenix in the world and she doesn't need a mate to reproduce, seeing as she rises from her own ashes. Actually, the Phoenix is probably sexless now that I think of it.
Carrie
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Richard
Parks
Registered User
(3/12/02 8:31:27 am)
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Re: Phoenix
Kerrie, as far as I know the ancient Chinese didn't believe the phoenix was female per se, only that -- if I remember correctly -- it "brought the mandate of Heaven" to the Empress and was her special symbol. Come to think of it, the sex of the Chinese dragons was problematic as well.
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claudia
Unregistered User
(3/14/02 11:04:18 am)
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dragons and dinosaurs
Thanks for all the great leads & tidbits.
Recent evidence points to many dinos having feathers. If dragons followed suit, would they be something like a firebird? I think mythological creatures are fairly safe from revision due to the work of paleontologists. I'll still think of my dragons having scales. Besides, who wants to belch flames with down feathers?
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isthmus
nekoi
Registered User
(3/15/02 9:55:46 am)
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w/a grain of salt
Sorry for jumping in so late here... I believe phoenixes and dragons are related in Chinese culture. Unfortunatly, I'm not basing this on any academic knowledge, but the impression I have is that they are like the male/female counterparts of each other. Growing up, I've seen dragons depicted w/phoenixes (esp in restaurants ^_~), but the dragon is a much more common motif.
I think there's a legend about the 9 dragons of heaven that I vaguely recall. If you're still interested, Claudia, I'll ask my parents about it!
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catja1
Registered User
(3/31/02 11:28:12 pm)
| Dragons
Sorry for my lateness here; if you're still researching, you might try
Jacqueline Simpson's _British Dragons_; there's also a book on the same
topic by Paul Newman (no, not that one!). Also, Peter Dickinson's _Flight
of Dragons_.
Catja
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