| Author |
Comment
|
allysonrosen
Registered User
(1/15/02 9:24:53 pm)
|
Tori Amos
So, I'm sitting here listening to my collection of Tori Amos as I'm checking the discussion board, and I recall that Tori Amos is mentioned as a "mythic artist" in the Endicott site. I am inspired to create a new discussion:
What do you think are the components that qualify Ms. Amos a mythic artist? What references to folklore and fairy tales have you discovered in Tori Amos's work?
This is, of course addressed to those of you who know Tori Amos's music. For those of you who are not familiar with it, LISTEN TO HER IMMEDIATELY. (Just kidding) But I highly reccommend her,as she is an original and inspiring muscial artist who mixes classical with pop/rock to create a wonderful sound....
Allyson
P.S., I never was a Cornflake Girl....how about you?
Edited by: allysonrosen at: 1/15/02 9:25:42 pm
|
isthmus
nekoi
Registered User
(1/16/02 5:14:30 pm)
|
Re: Tori Amos
yeah, but hanging out w/the raisin girls wasn't the best solution ^_~
I think one of Tori's album w/the most references to myth is deep in Boys of Pele - Pele herself being a Hawaiian goddess, and a primary deity before colonialism. My fave is her reference to Cain and Abel in Doughnut Song (two sons too many/too many able fires) Let's see, what else? There's Pandora's Aquarium where she mentions the Lord of the Flies (Hades) although that's from 'from the choirgirl hotel'. She draws a lot from Christian lore, and that pretty much spans over all her work. I'm sure there are more references to be found in her album art, videos and b-sides.
But back to BfP - even w/o all the Christian references, this album is very mythic - you can follow Tori through this journey she makes w/her animus... very personal, very epic...
|
isthmus
nekoi
Registered User
(1/16/02 5:21:27 pm)
|
Neil Gaiman
I also forgot to mention Tori has a few smatterings of Neil Gaiman here and there in her work - Gaiman's Sandman being *steeped* in myth/folklore.
|
Kerrie
Registered User
(1/16/02 6:02:59 pm)
|
Re: Tori Amos
I'm particular to *winter* and *silent all these years*. In *winter*, it's very father-daughter in its "tale".
www.hereinmyhead.com/coll...h/le5.html
I can see elements of Sleeping Beauty, Red Riding Rood (I run off...), Snow White (Mirror mirror), maybe even Cinderella (white horses). "You must learn to stand up for yourself/ Cause I can't always be around" makes me think of the parents who cannot protect their children, the fairy godparents who can help once, but that's all. Possibly even the progression of Maiden, Mother, Crone.
*silent all these years* was my theme song as a teen, and I can see now how relevant it really was, still is in some ways.
www.hereinmyhead.com/coll...h/le3.html
This reminds me strongly of the Little Mermaid- silence, mermaid, finding another girl.
Until this topic came up, I hadn't really thought about mythic images
in Tori's music. Perhaps I'm finding my own thoughts in them, perhaps
that's her point.
Sugarplum dreams,
Kerrie
Edited by: Kerrie at: 3/3/02 6:47:16 am
|
Charles Vess
Unregistered User
(1/16/02 6:45:19 pm)
|
Tori references...
Yes, she's very good friends with Neil. She asked to be the talking tree (you know, the one with the red leaves of course) in STARDUST. Somewhere in one of her songs she references that.
Nice woman and she is very, very into faeries.
Charles
|
ZMethos
Registered User
(1/16/02 8:32:25 pm)
|
Tori bender
I remember going on a Tori Amos bender once, not because I wanted to, mind you--a friend of mine had all her CDs and wanted me to copy them to tapes so she could play them in her broken-down old Honda. . . Anyway, a whole Saturday of Tori and I'd never even heard any of her music before, but I ended up writing a whole series of poems that evening that were very spooky. . . I even saved them as "Tori" on my computer because they reminded me of the songs and I never did write anything like them again.
That's my only contact with Tori's music. I think I've always been a little scared to go back. . .
~M. Pepper
|
swanchick
Unregistered User
(3/2/02 1:55:25 pm)
|
Tori Amos
And how could anyone forget "Mother", from Little Earthquakes? A friend of mine pointed out to me years ago that it is about Bluebeard's wife. It made a startling kind of sense when I thought about it.
Swan_Chick
|
janeyolen
Unregistered User
(3/3/02 5:10:30 am)
|
spoil sport
I don't want to be a spoil sport, but we MUST all remember that quoting songs is a no-no. Lyrics are copyrighted and ASCAP etc. are fierce in keeping after those who do not get permission and pay a fee. And we don't want Heidi to be in trouble, as it is her site.
Same thing with poetry. Unless it is your own.
Jane
|
swanchick
Unregistered User
(3/3/02 11:54:06 am)
|
To clarify my post about "Mother"
Well, I managed to mention that I thought "Mother" was
a fairy tale song, but didn't mention why. Let me see if I can summarize
the fairy tale elements without infringing on copyright; I'll try
to paraphrase.
The first verse of the song deals with a mother and her daughter parting as the daughter goes off to be married; Mom tells her not to be sad, because it was the daughter's decision to marry this guy in the first place.
The chorus is a plea by the daughter for someone to watch out for her in her marriage, so she can find her way home if necessary.
The second verse refers to the man's multiple brides, and to the fact that he has told her all but one of his secrets. The phone is out of order--reference to "The Bloody Chamber", where none of the phones dial out? Then there is a reference to something dripping with blood, and she says "poisoned me against the moon", which sounds like a pregnancy reference to me (stopping her courses). And I have heard speculation that Bluebeard's wives' deaths are symbolic of death in childbirth.
And then there is a reference to breadcrumbs, briefly diving into Hansel and Gretel country.
Not to mention it's just a pretty song anyway.
Swan_Chick
|
swanchick
Unregistered User
(3/3/02 11:56:43 am)
|
copyright
Ms. Yolen,
Just to respectfully clarify: what kind of quoting is legal and what is not? I have heard that it is acceptable to quote briefly when one is reviewing a work, and that is basically what we are doing, but how much is "briefly"? I tried not to quote at all in my last post, but I just couldn't get around it with the moon line. *shrug* Copyright law always confuzzles me.
Swan_Chick
|
Kerrie
Registered User
(3/3/02 2:46:34 pm)
|
Re: copyright
I think the reference was to my post, as I had more than a few lines,
though less than the whole songs. I edited the post and removed
all of the lyrics except for the brief excerpts I analyzed, plus
left the links to the lyrics. I hope I haven't caused any trouble,
Heidi!
Sugarplum dreams,
Kerrie
|
janeyolen
Unregistered User
(3/4/02 4:05:13 am)
|
legalities
Basically, a few lines of poetry in a review. But the song lyrics folks are a LOT nastier about this. I always err on the no-lyrics side of things. And I am not a copyright lawyer.
Jane
|
Jess
Unregistered User
(3/4/02 12:37:17 pm)
|
Copyrighting
I have to side with Jane on this one. Everything I have seen is that ASCAP and BMI are being especially diligent where anything on the Internet is concerned. Probably better to play it safe.
I tried to dig out my old intellectual property text (which is definitely out of date, but could be instructive) for the exceptions, but, alas, I couldn't find it.
Jess
|
swanchick
Unregistered User
(3/4/02 3:18:57 pm)
|
copyright and lyrics
Sorry to be obnoxious about it. It's not any of you that are annoying
me; it's the record companies. I know they've been acting absolutely
psycho about lyrics sites and the like. I would tend to think they
are shooting themselves in the foot; generally before buying an
album I want to browse through the lyrics. So they'd actually be
making and not losing money by letting the sites stay. Groan. But
I digress.
Swan_Chick
|
cloudshaper
Registered User
(3/5/02 3:51:32 am)
|
Re: copyright and lyrics
Just so you don't worry too much, there isn't much risk of a civil action for quoting lyrics if you cite the artist and source in this type of discussion. You have to be able to prove that you suffered some form of injury (being deprived of potential revenue, usually) in order to have a legitimate claim.
In fact, since the discussion is about references in Tori's work
to older material which is in the public domain, I think it would
be pretty hard to unintentionally violate copywrite law in this
case.
|
Jess
Unregistered User
(3/5/02 7:30:46 am)
|
Copyright
While you are probably right, a quick check of ASCAP's website and licensing agreements state (and I paraphrase) that use of lyrics for purely personal discussion are fine, but that they are not to be posted on any computer network. As you know educational use is almost always an exception to copyright law, but I think it is concerned about abuse, i.e. people going beyond the educational/personal informational use, even when the intent of the original poster would be within the exception.
The real concern here, I think, is to avoid having Helen harassed by ASCAP to get a license for its works.
Jess
|
Marc
Unregistered User
(3/10/02 10:05:11 pm)
|
Paper on Tori's Use of Myth
Thanks for posting that interpretation, of "Mother," Swan_Chick. That had never occurred to me before.
I thought I'd share a paper I wrote for a Classical Mythology course I took last year:
www.geocities.com/doriangray331/tori_mythology.html
(It's on geocities, so you'll have to copy and paste the link into your browser.)
I focus mainly on "Boys for Pele," taking into account album artwork as well as lyrics. I'm a bit afraid now that this is a major copyright violation, but if educational uses are often exempt, then perhaps it's alright. In any case, I'd love to read any feedback (even if it's just to warn my that I should take down the page!).
|
