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Author
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Comment
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Draco
the Lizard
Registered User
(4/27/02 3:59:50 am)
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Asian fairy-tales
Hello people,
For school I have to do a presentation on Asian fairy-tales, compare them to some Western ones and explain some of the symbolism.
I already have several tales from Asia, but do any of you know sites where I can find info about symbolism?
Thanks in advance!
Edited by: Heidi Anne Heiner at: 4/27/02 8:55:23 am
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Midori
Unregistered User
(4/27/02 5:38:38 am)
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peculiar response
Draco, your tag line, while it might be really funny in some circumstances, is a bit problematic on the board. We are visited by a lot of very young students and parents and the webmistress has requested a certain level of polite discourse. Is is possible for you in the future to ask your questions or make your post without the tag line?
I'd have to answer your question with another...which Asian tales have you selected? It is easier to match comparisons between one or two folk tales rather than whole collections...unless your paper is huge. Once the board has an idea of which tale (s) (and I would really try to look only at two at the most) we may be able to give more useful advice.
You could have a look at www.endicott-studio.com. Scroll to the "Forum" section and have a look at the various articles authored by Heinz Insu Fenkl. He is Korean American and one of his many specialties is Korean Folktales. He articles contain some really great anaylsis of different Korean tales and you might find this an interesting place to start.
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Heidi
Anne Heiner
ezOP
(4/27/02 8:55:02 am)
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Re: peculiar response
Thank you, Midori!
And yes, Draco, I have taken the liberty of removing your tag line from your posts. This site is for all ages and I do not want to offend the younger--or older--eyes which visit here daily. With an average of almost 1,000 hits daily now, this site needs to stay at a certain level of gentility, please. I removed the filters so that some of our less innocuous words wouldn't be touched by an unthinking machine, but there are some I really can't let stay.
Thank you for your understanding,
Heidi
Edited by: Heidi Anne Heiner at: 4/27/02 9:04:39 am
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Draco
the Lizard
Registered User
(4/28/02 6:36:50 am)
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Re: peculiar response
Removing the tag-line is okay, it's not really appropriate here.
I've got three, "The Silken Tassel", about a beautiful girl who ends up marrying a fisherman, "Natural Enemies," explaining why cats and dogs hate each other and "We all are one," about a poor man looking for a herb and being helped by insects.
Got your potato?
Edited by: Draco the Lizard at: 4/28/02 2:17:08 pm
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Laura
Registered User
(4/28/02 10:45:42 pm)
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Asian tales
A number of us here are quite interested in Asian tales. However, I'm afraid I for one am not familiar with the ones you've chosen. Since your project involves a comparison with Western tales, perhaps it would shed some light if you tell us which tales you're going to use for the Western half.
The biggest thing to keep in mind is that symbolism is NOT universal -- not even within a culture. It's "in the eye of the beholder," to a certain degree, changing with time, place, and all manner of other factors. What age level is your audience? That will help determine how much detail you need to devote to the question.
Laura S.
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Draco
the Lizard
Registered User
(5/7/02 11:29:21 am)
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Re: Asian tales
Well, I don't really need any help on symbolsim, but aren't there any sites on Asian Fairy-tales in general about its origin and history?
"Fairy-tales don't tell children monsters exit, they know that already. Fairy-tales tell children how to defeat the monster." |
Laura
Registered User
(5/7/02 9:38:44 pm)
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Asian tales
Again, I'm afraid you're a bit too broad. Folktales don't really have an "origin" per se. Now, if what you mean are literary tales, then that's a whole other kettle of fish. As for a history, do you mean their history in print? What about in art, on the stage, or in film? This is a huge field. Really consider what specific goal you are trying to achieve.
You mentioned 3 specific tales in an earlier post. Where did you locate these stories? Considering that source is your first step to determining a history of those particular narratives.
Laura S.
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Draco
the Lizard
Registered User
(5/8/02 4:42:07 am)
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Re: Asian tales
All good points, but I kind of want to know where the oldest tales are from and when they were printed.
BTW, does anyone know which Western fairy-tales is about greed?
"Fairy-tales don't tell children monsters exit, they know that already. Fairy-tales tell children how to defeat the monster." |
Jane Yolen
Unregistered User
(5/8/02 11:37:57 am)
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Repeating
There are no "oldest" fairy tales. Some literary tales or collected tales we can date. As to others. . .unless you have a very good time machine, you aren't ever going to know which are the "oldest."
As to Western folk tales about greed--there are hundreds and hundreds. Even after you put them into greed catagories: greedy for wealth, for food, for lovers, for status, for recognition etc.
One entire line of Western folktales is about two sisters, one of whom is greedy (as is her mother) and--in some instances--ends up with a mouthful of toads.
Also, there are cerainly elements of greed in many Cinderella variants.
If you want help from this group, you need to narrow your focus.
Jane
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pauline storyteller
Registered User
(5/9/02 12:41:13 pm)
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Re: Asian tales
Hi!
I`m not sure if this is what you are after, but if you want to compare a western and an Asian version of a fairy tale you could try AT 333/ Little Red Riding Hood.
Like with any fairy tale it`s impossible to know how old it is, but it did existed bouth in China and in France in 1600th century (or is it the 1500th? I`m not good at this, I mean the century spanning from 1600 - 1700).
In the west we tend to say that it spred from France to Aisa, but I don`t think there is any evidence that it didn`t spred the other way. (It certaintly spred from France to Germany, not the other way - this is easy to trace!)
The versions before Charles Perraults is not called "Little Red Riding Hood", because he invented this name - there is also no red headwear in the older variants.
You can find a Taiwanese version on the web under the name Hoko Po. The web versions are not too good, if you have time to go to the library you can try "Studies in Taiwanese Folk Tales" by Wolfram Eberhard, Taipei 1971.
Or Alan Dundes: "Little Red Riding Hood. A Casebook", 1989, which has extracts of this book and an old french version: "The story of grandmother".
The Chinese tales I think is called Lon Po Po. In Taiwan the wolf is a tiger, in China he can be bouht. There is differences in the Chinese and Taiwanise versions derived from the fact that Taiwan has been under occupation since 1662, and one of the symbolic meaning beeing about Taiwan history. On the other hand, it`s also a tale of female initiation like the French ones.
There also versions from Korea and Japan, they tend to be more creation myths (the ones I have red, anyway). I haven`t found that in Europe.
Some of the old tales from France and alph regions of Italy and Austria are about greed. In theese tales the girl is eaten by the wolf (or ogre or witch) because she is greedy. And not because she is vain and thoughtless, like in Perraults version. In "The story of grandmother" she is not eaten.
You can find a lot about symbolism in Alan Dundes` book. I will also recommend Angela Carters "The Company of Wolves" and Tanith Lees "Wolfland". Theese are retellings of the tale, but from my point of wiev they are also sientific analyzes. They strongly impact the mother godess aspect of the tale, and this is possibly a link to the Japanese and Korean versions (I haven`t explored this yet).
One last warning: If you start looking in to this you will probably never be able to stop... I`m not anyway...
Good luck with your project!
Pauline |
Draco
the Lizard
Registered User
(5/9/02 2:37:49 pm)
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Re: Asian tales
I know, this fairy-tale stuff is really interesting.
I found a site containig various versions of Litte Red Riding Hood, the oldest from 1790, in which she and her grandma got eaten. Quite the difference from our 'censored' story now a days. I thought it was fascinating to see the different messages the stories send. The first one was centered on telling children that when they're send on an errand, do it as quickly as possible, while later versions venter on being kind to animals and to never trust strangers.
"Fairy-tales don't tell children monsters exit, they know that already. Fairy-tales tell children how to defeat the monster." |
pauline
storyteller
Registered User
(5/9/02 2:56:48 pm)
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Re: Asian tales
Hi again!
For me this tale is most meaningfull from a initiation point of wiev. Then grandma have to be eaten because she represents the older generation which the girl is supposed to replace - in some versions the girl eats bits of grandma herself. The wolf, on the other hand, is not killed - he represents things that will still be there, but the girl outsmarts him and learns how to handle him. If you read French, here`s something on symbolism:
expositions.bnf.fr/contes...erdier.htm
Pauline
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