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Author
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Comment
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Mary
Unregistered User
(7/16/03 3:57 pm)
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Dragons in fairy tales
I was reading through a book of Russian fairytales recently, and noticing what strange sorts of dragons they had.
True, they had three, six, seven, nine, or twelve heads, and sometimes they ate princesses. On the other hand, sometimes they married princesses, and they often married Baba Yaga's daughters, or asked the hero if he had come to woo their sisters or daughters. One of them rode a horse.
Are such human-like dragons a pecularity of the Russians tales?
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lutoon
1
Registered User
(7/18/03 2:02 pm)
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Re: Dragons in fairy tales
I'm pretty sure this kind of dragon exist in Chinese tales two. They can change themselves into humans. And we can do some comparizons with Melusine (the french half -snake fairy) hope it could help.
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Mary
Unregistered User
(7/20/03 10:08 am)
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chinese vs. russian dragons
The odd thing about that is that in Chinese folktales, the dragons definitely can change shape between human and draconian form. In the Russian ones, they don't; they just act like dragons and humans both.
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duglis
Registered User
(7/20/03 11:36 am)
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Dragon tales
So what are the best Dragon fairy tales from around the
world?
Can someone name 5 or so and what books they can be
found in? :)
Douglas
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Jess
Unregistered User
(7/21/03 6:11 am)
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I am pretty sure
that Jane Yolan has a book with dragon fairy tales, but I am not sure if they are her tales or an anthology. You might want to check the recent archives on this one. I believe there was a discussion of dragons not too long ago, say around February or March.
Good luck.
Jess
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Jane Yolen
Unregistered User
(7/21/03 10:00 pm)
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From the source
Yolen. With an E.
My own fairy tales, though some use old fairy stories as a starting point. And each story has introductory notes. It's called HERE THERE BE DRAGONS. (Harcourt.)
Jane
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Jess
Unregistered User
(7/22/03 11:07 am)
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Apologies, Jane
I am usually very careful to make sure I spell your name correctly, but I was in a bit of hurry. Alas, I apologize.
Jess
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Jane Yolen
Unregistered User
(7/23/03 1:38 am)
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Don't worry
Not to worry, Jess--it's an automatic reflex since my name (simply enough one would think) is ALWAYS being misspelled. Even (gasp) by my publishers every now and again.
Jane
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CrCeres
Unregistered User
(7/24/03 2:41 pm)
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The Books of Dragons
There is a pleasantly obscure book (at least, I have had trouble finding a copy in book stores) by Nesbit, called "The Last of the Dragons, and Some Others." It is a compilation of stories ranging from unusual (the last of the dragons isn't exactly vicious) to just plain weird (an ice dragon, two children, and some evil mink-furs). Some are almost normal.
Then there are collections that have some dragon stories in them (including Yolen's excellent book), from old--the Fairie Queene, the Volsunga Saga--to less old--Brothers Grimm and their ilk--and modern, e.g. Grahame's Reluctant Dragon. Sadly, I can't name any off the top of my head that are about dragons and furthermore about dragons all over the world.
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Blackwolf
Unregistered User
(7/25/03 6:47 am)
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Two references
Not actually a collection of dragon stories but a study of the origin of the dragon:
"An Instinct For Dragons" by David Jones.
Another book, more whimiscal and tongue-in-cheek:
"A Naturay History of Dragons and Unicorns" by Paul and Karin Johnsgard.
Blackwolf
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Aural13
Unregistered User
(7/27/03 11:38 am)
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baba yaga's daughters
baba yaga had daughters?! ok, baba yaga is the weirdest thing in fairy tales. she rides around in her giant mortar and pestle, eats people, has giant black ravens who attack infants, and her daughters marry dragons? what is up w/her?
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Helen
Registered User
(7/28/03 6:54 am)
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Russian idiosyncracies ...
One interesting thing to keep in mind when thinking about Russian dragons is the etymolygy of the word in Russian - zmey - which translates, literally, as snake, or serpent. We have a similar tradition in English, with the serpent or worm (i.e., "The Loathly Worm"), but there are alternatives ... in Russian there really aren't any widely acceptable synonyms (though dragon has come more into vogue with the advent of modern sf), indicating the unilateral view of the dragon, which had borne all of the traditional Christian symbolism, and multipled it. Thus, the snake becomes a seducer quite literally, and not in a merely metaphorical sense, often competing with the hero in courtship rites.
As for Baba Yaga ... she's an interesting one. I've been doing a good deal of research on her recently. One reason for the accretion of so many - occasionally conflicting - myths connected to her can be traced to her likely role as a pre-Christian goddess figure. Various critics have linked her to goddesses as disparate as Kali (for the skull/bone imagery) and Keridwen (connection between the mortar and the cauldron), the general consensus being that she was a kind of goddess of death and rebirth. Gradually, she came to co-opted into rites of maturation (there are interesting links between the traditional bathhouse as a ritual space, and the myths surrounding her hut). Baba Yaga fluctuates from threat to helper in Russian fairy tales, depending upon variables that range from the gender of the protagonist to their motivation in seeking her out: regardless of her specific actions, her presence is always symbolic of change (though whether from child to adult or guest to stew is somewhat unpredictable). The significance of each of her mythic accoutrements is up for interpretation as a result of all of this figurative accumulation. What's interesting about Russian myth, and Baba Yaga in particular, is the fact of individual identity: in most cultures, there will be a nameless "witch" (or princess, etc.) who will possess the trait of cannibalism, and another namesake with a broom ... but we don't necessarily make the connection between, say, the witch from "Hansel and Gretel" to the witch of "Snow White" (which would make for ... a witch with an eating disorder and issues with her self-image? ... That has possibilities for a nice paper on traditional "female" concerns as manifested through negative female role models ... sorry, got distracted). In Russia, all of those stories have built up around a single figure, making for some *very* interesting results. It's tough to reconcile all the aspects of her identity - most folklorists tend to try to separate them, either chronologically, geographically, or thematically. In fiction, the best take that I've seen on her in a long time has to come from Patricia McKillip's newest work, _In the Forests of Serre_ (which is slightly tangential, but worth mentioning). I think that we also had a thread on Baba Yaga about a year or so ago that might be worth looking at ...
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Blackwolf
Unregistered User
(7/28/03 7:30 am)
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Tiamat
Likewise, you can also take a look at Tiamat who is also a mother goddess of death and chaos. She turns into or is a dragon as well.
Blackwolf
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