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Author
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Comment
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passagassawaukeag
Unregistered User
(11/4/03 10:09 am)
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Tales of ecology: an ill character = an ill land
We are writing a book about the connection between the ecology of the earth and the ecology of the body. Can anyone suggest a story (or stories) that include an ill character (e.g., the king, the princess) whose health mirrors the state of the surrounding land? Many thanks!
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tlchang37
Registered User
(11/4/03 11:50 am)
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ecology
Much of the King Arthur mythos has that connection - the health and productivity of the land was directly connected to Arthur's (not just his health, but his commitment and caretaking abilities).
There is a dramatic visual example of this near the end of the movie "Excalibur". Arthur had lost his sword and his hope. He looked old and near death, and so did the countryside. When he was able to drink from the Holy Grail, he revived and went out riding with his knights. As they swept through the countryside, it also came alive and blossomed.
That gets me thinking about movies. "Legend" has the climate completely change when a horn is cut off the unicorn. The land will be completely shrouded in darkness forever if the second unicorn is similarly dismembered.
The "Thomas Covenant, Tales of the Unbeliever" series by Stephen R. Donaldson, first and second series has that connection with both the main characters.
I'm sure there are lots more. I'll keep thinking and see what I remember.
Tara
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Niniane
Sunyata
Registered User
(11/4/03 2:59 pm)
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Re: ecology
When Sleeping Beauty pricked her finger and slept, the whole Kingdom slept with her.
Anita Harris.
Terra Mythogene
www.mythopoetica.com
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Mnemosynehime
Registered User
(11/4/03 7:29 pm)
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re: ecological stories
It's an anime, but the story of Magic Knight Rayearth has a princess whose heart and state of mind is mirrored in her country. In fact, it's what supports it, and if she isn't concentrating on the happiness and health of the people and world, then it falls into ruin.
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AliceB
Registered User
(11/4/03 7:40 pm)
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Re: re: ecological stories
THE NEVERENDING STORY also comes to mind.
Alice
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denag
Registered User
(11/5/03 3:17 am)
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the fisher king
in grail lore, i think the fisher king generally is wounded in some way, which (in some versions) is reflected in the health of the land ("the wasteland"). the discovery of the grail by percival either heals the fisher king or releases him to the next world, healing the land. i think it depends on the version as to whether arthur and the fisher king are one or separate.
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Niniane
Sunyata
Registered User
(11/5/03 4:48 am)
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Re: the fisher king
Forgot about that one! A good explanation and narrative of a version of that ("Parsifal" by Wolfram von Eschenbach) exists in Joseph Campbell's "Creative Mythology". Anfortas is healed when Parsifal finally asks him what is wrong with him. I'm fascinated by that whole story, since much of Parsifal's personal wasteland arises out of the idea that he had allowed Anfortas to go on suffering because he had omitted from asking him a question about his condition. Kind of very applicable to ecology and the health of a nation, no?
Good thread, this.
Anita Harris.
Terra Mythogene
www.mythopoetica.com
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denag
Registered User
(11/5/03 9:07 am)
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ritual regicide
or, what about ritual regicide - sort of turns the idea on it's head really - instead of restoring the leader to health, assurance that the spring (and with it the sun, and fertility etc) is sought through the death of the leader.
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Rosemary
Lake
Registered User
(11/5/03 11:24 am)
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regicide, replacement
I thought the point of killing the old king was to make room for a new, young, healthy one in his place. Not "The king is dead" but "long live the king." :-)
Anyway there might be a lot about it in THE GOLDEN BOUGH.
If just replacing the ruler is enough, without necessarily killing him, then THE LION, THE WITCH,AND THE WARDROBE might fit the pattern. The evil witch who is ruling the land has put it land under a spell of 'always winter and never Christmas'; as soon as the real ruler (golden lion, sun-god figure) returns, the land starts to heal, even before he drives out the witch.
When the witch was killed in Oz, everyone was glad, and Dorothy got some of her powers, but I don't remember whether it changed the weather.
R.
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tlchang37
Registered User
(11/5/03 12:12 pm)
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regicide, replacement
And the whole idea behind the "May King" - a young, healthy member of the tribe/society chosen on May Day/Beltaine, and wined, dined and treated like a King for a year until he is sacrificed the following Beltaine for the health and fertility of the people.
If you go that route, there's lots of sacrificing of kings, virgins, children, etc... to facilitate appeasement of the gods and insure good crops, good weather, human and animal fertility, etc... in all kinds of cultures.
Tara
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inkgypsy
Unregistered User
(11/5/03 9:15 pm)
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Don't forget...
Stephen R. Donaldson's THE CHRONICLES OF THOMAS COVENANT.
For those unaware of this classic set of novels I'll just say: masterful fantasy, mythic themes of life and death, the inner land juxtaposed with the outer, an ill anti-hero (the Unbeliever) who comes to believe and want to live as he grows to love this alternate land he finds himself in...
Being somebody who loved myth and gritty fairytales from a young age I found these amazing and they remain among my favorites - fairytale and mythic themes are used abundantly throughout, though not obviously so.
The books are very layered yet still accessible (I read these first in my teens and loved them, though there's no way I could have really understood it all). I've heard some people say they were disturbed at how dark the story often was. My own experience has been enlightening and liberating - it may depend on "where you are" at the time. Worth your research as it deals directly with your subject matter, even if the style isn't something you enjoy (think Angela Carter, Neil Gaiman, Nalo Hopkinson).
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Niniane
Sunyata
Registered User
(11/5/03 10:24 pm)
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Re: regicide, replacement
Right you are. Over here @ my neck of the woods (Malaysia) the traditional investiture of Kings and/or Sultans include the concept of "daulat" which is kind of difficult to translate but kind of places the spiritual wellbeing of the land within the bloodline of the royals. Of course, in this day and age it's more of a formality than anything else, but you can still go to places where people believe totally in it, and also, link this "daulat" to residential spirits, like a tiger looking after the state (that would be the state I am in, *grin*)
Anita Harris.
Terra Mythogene
www.mythopoetica.com
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Blackwolf
Unregistered User
(11/6/03 8:07 am)
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Tigers. ;)
Singapore here.
Your mention of tigers looking after the land reminds me somehow of the myths surrounding a certain sacred/holy place in Singapore. It's called Fort Canning but it does house the keramat (the grave) of a Sultan. It is rumored that white tigers have been seen around this grave.
Blackwolf
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denag
Registered User
(11/6/03 1:49 pm)
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bloodlines
when i was reading about the holy grail i remember that some portray the grail community (or sometimes king arthur's court) as a closed community under threat, and in some cases the threat has been interpreted as "dilution" of a "pure" bloodline.
this brings in ideas about "dying races" (reminding me of the elves, and in fact the humans, in LOTR), and the wasteland can be argued as a reflection of this (there is a wasteland in LOTR too).
but it is a bit of a minefield talking about racial purity, and remnants of dying races, because it has been used to justify extreme racial hatred (i think the nazis used this imagery).
interestingly, the idea of pure "bloodlines" (actually relating to blood, rather than genes) was prevalent in victorian england but was seriously challenged by the advent of blood transfusion (following invention of the hypodermic needle). but i can't give any references at present because i've forgotten where i found all this. sorry!
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aka
Greensleeves
Registered User
(11/6/03 4:40 pm)
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Re: bloodlines
Someone will have to refresh my memory on this one, but doesn't it come up in GG Kay's [i]The Summer Tree?[/i] The kingdom in crisis (drought, plague?) can only be renewed if the king sacrifices himself by being crucified on the Summer Tree. Of course, since the Fionavar Tapestry cycle is, in large part, an Arthur story, perhaps this doesn't really cover any new ground. Though now I think of it in this light, Cooper's The Dark is Rising sequence comes to mind, as well.
Robin McKinley's "The Golden Hind" has a prince languishing near death, but I can't remember if the kingdom suffers with him. Likewise her [i]Deerskin[/i].
Oh, and speaking of Kay: [i]Tigana[/i] involves land identity and memory--conquered in battle, Tigana's name has been magically wiped from memory/knowledge. Only those born there can remember that there once was a country by that name--by that reasoning, their country owes its existance to their health/survival.
Stephanie
in the prairie
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RBrunea
Registered User
(11/7/03 4:14 am)
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ecology
Sauron and Saruman in Lord of the Rings both torture and destroy their lands, reflecting their evil spirits and sick minds. The elvish lands are serene and heavenly, even in their decline, reflecting their goodness.
Rhonda
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Niniane
Sunyata
Registered User
(11/8/03 11:32 am)
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Re: Tigers. ;)
Quote:
Singapore here.
Hiya Neighbour
Sorry for delay in replying, I've been caught up in the NaNoWriMo
fever
I've never heard of Fort Canning, but that's fascinating. Yes, tigers
are very much a part of the Malay subconscious/psyche, I think.
Years ago I witnessed a man who claimed to channel Tigers. When
it happened, he licked salt, and sounded different. A Malaysian
author, K.S. Maniam wrote some interesting stuff about the Tiger
and how it is bound to the land. The book is In a Far Country.
ISBN: 1871438144
It's @ amazon.com FYI.
Anita Harris.
Terra Mythogene
www.mythopoetica.com
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Blackwolf
Unregistered User
(11/8/03 7:20 pm)
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Tigers and the land. ;)
Hehe, I have heard about the NaNoWriMo fever. I might try writing next year.
A man who claimed to channel Tigers. Wow. That sounds fascinating! Odd that I was actually watching a programme on Malaysian TV (I think it was TV3) a few days... and they were talking about tigers.
Sounds like a good book - might go and read it up. I am always interested in the link between animal and man, especially when it comes to the psyche and the land.
Blackwolf
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Niniane
Sunyata
Registered User
(11/11/03 8:15 am)
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Re: Tigers and the land. ;)
That could be Misteri Nusantara (the TV3 program) - they
always showcase occult and interesting stuff like that
As for NaNoWriMo, it's crazy, but also very infectious fun! I'm having a blast (when I'm not hating the novel I'm writing at breakneck speed, lol)
Anita Harris.
Terra Mythogene
www.mythopoetica.com
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bielie
Unregistered User
(11/11/03 11:03 am)
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Cursed land
1) Adam: God tells him the earth is cursed because of his sin.
2) Simba: During Scar's rule no rain falls and the earth is scorched. When Scar dies it starts to rain.
3) Wyrd Sisters: Terry Pratchet's take on Hamlet.
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Laura
Registered User
(11/11/03 4:11 pm)
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the ubiquitous Sandman
My fiance reminded me that in Neil Gaiman's ever-popular Sandman series, Morpheus reigns over the Dreaming and influences it -- when Morpheus is sad, it rains in the Dreaming, etc.
Laura
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