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Author
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Comment
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claudiasky79
Registered User
(7/20/04 7:45 pm)
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archetypal achemical themes in fairytales
Hi I am new to this discussion board... I am trying to understand what the archetypal and alchemical themes would be in some fairy tales ... could anyone help me with this? I am studying basic Jung and the psychology of fairy tales ...
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Helen
J Pilinovsky
Registered User
(7/20/04 9:50 pm)
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Re: archetypal achemical themes in fairytales
Well, the former is a word that tends to be thrown about with frightening frequency; the latter, less so. If you want to read up on fairy tale archetypes, I recommend Vladimir Propp and Maria von Franz. As for the alchemical themes ... this sounds like something that pops up *concretely* in the very formal tales of German Romanticism (i.e., Goethe and de la Motte Fouque) in terms of their blending of the elemental spirits, and the influences which they had both upon one another and the world of mortals. I suppose that you could probably apply alchemical themes to other works ("The Little Mermaid" pops to mind), but you'd want to be careful to be specific. A few years ago we had a poster who was using the I Ching to read the Grimms. It was fascinating, but also ... problematic.
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claudiasky79
Registered User
(7/20/04 11:00 pm)
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Re: archetypal achemical themes in fairytales
Hi Helen- Thank you for your reply... its very helpful. Yes I am reading von Franz for my class {it just started so I am at the beginning of understanding but these classes are very important to my degree plan}. I am suppose to find five culturally diverse fairy tales and describe their archetypes and achemical themes as an assignment. Your reply helps put me into the direction of understanding how to find what i need to do... this website and discussion board is wonderfully insiteful and fascinating...
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Helen
J Pilinovsky
Registered User
(7/20/04 11:20 pm)
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Re: archetypal achemical themes in fairytales
Well, adding in the idea of cultural diversity, you could probably reverse the question and use the archetypes of nature spirits to examine the alchemical structures (i.e., looking at, say, woodland spirits such as Pan, the lesh'yi - that thread is just on my mind now! - Coyote, etc., to see how their interactions with human beings provided the grounding influence associated with the earth, or how water spirits such as nixies, rusalki, mermaids, etc. acted as disruptive influences). This would allow you to find some commonalities, but also to explore the cultural differences in the ideas behind archtypes - who is an appropriate heroine? what do the villains share, and how do they differ? - and to also address the fact that alchemical readings are more or less a wholly Western construct which can, in all rationality, be applied to a fairly narrow frame of reference unless the idea of "alchemy" is broadly expanded into elementalism.
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bielie
Unregistered User
(7/21/04 12:32 am)
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Alchemy
Alchemical themes abound in fairy tales.
--The quest for cheating death and immortality: Every other Anderson character becomes immortal. The fountain of youth. Miraculous healings.
--The quest for purification: In Alchemy the purification of base metals always happens in parallel with purificaton of the soul. Again Anderson and Wilde springs to mind. The tin soldier (Base metal) goes through fire and is purified in death. The Happy Prince has a lead heart that becomes the greatest treasure. Shakespeare: All that glitters is not gold, sometimes the biggest treasure is in the lead box.
--Transmutation: Fairy tales are just full of shapeshifters who turn themselves into animals. Midas turns his daughter into gold. Medusa turns heroes into stone.
--The Sun (Gold)
--The Moon (Silver)
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Terri
Windling
Registered User
(7/21/04 7:13 am)
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Re: Alchemy
The Girl With Silver Hands (also known as The Girl With No Hands,
The Handless Maiden, The Armless Maiden) is a good tale to look
at in this respect. Von Franz discusses it, and it's a tale found
in cultures all around the world. I recommend a book by Gertrude
Mueller Nelson, Here
All Dwell Free: Stories to Heal the Wounded Feminine
(Doubleday, 1991), which examines The Handless Maiden (and Briar
Rose) from a Jungian perspective. Mueller Nelson was a student of
von Franz.
I also recommend Midori Snyder's beautiful story based on the tale,
"The Armless Maiden," in the anthology The
Armless Maiden (Tor Books, 1995), which makes good use
of the healing and transformational themes within the story.
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redtriskell
Registered User
(7/26/04 12:23 am)
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not an alchemist, but
Well, I don't know if this will be helpful, but, if you use transformation
or purification as a theme, The
Armless Maiden anthology Terri Windling mentioned is nothing
short of superb. There are many stories dealing with both concepts.
It's a beautifully touching book. I particularly liked "The
Lion and The Lark." It's about transformation and the transformative
power of enchantment.
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Terri
Windling
Registered User
(7/26/04 8:16 am)
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Re: not an alchemist, but
Aw shucks. Thanks, Redtriskell. And I agree that Patricia McKillip's
story The Lion and The Lark is a fabulous one.
There's another excellent story by Patricia McKillip that works
very directly with alchemical (and fairy tale) themes, called Transmutations.
It can be found in Xanadu
II, edited by Jane Yolen, and also in The
Year's Best Fantasy & Horror, Eighth Annual.
I also recommend Emma Bull's story Silver and Gold, which
can be found on-line at: www.endicott-studio.com/jMA04Winter/rrsilvergold.html
Edited by: Terri Windling at: 7/26/04 8:22 am
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Niniane
Sunyata
Registered User
(7/27/04 8:40 am)
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Re: alchemy and sacred marriage
The "sacred marriage" aspect in Alchemy which covers a
union of opposites can be found in many fairytales which feature
transformations. Jung presents a fascinating look at the union of
opposites in Alchemy (with regards to the marriage) in Aion
- check for the theme against the fairytales you read. It is there.
www.mythopoetica.com
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