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Author
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Comment
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rafael
Unregistered User
(2/4/04 6:50 pm)
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pied piper of harnelin
I want to find this story because I need to do a project
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Heidi
Anne Heiner
ezOP
(2/4/04 9:53 pm)
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Re: pied piper of harnelin
Try here:
www.indiana.edu/~librcsd/.../text.html
Heidi
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Andrey
Bobev
Registered User
(2/12/04 8:13 am)
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Re: pied piper of harnelin
See the topic about rat at this site also!
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Marks
Unregistered User
(2/20/04 6:34 pm)
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And for further historical reading on the subject...
...there is this page. In addition to what it says here, I had read once where it was thought that there was a "countercultural" movement similar to the troubadores in the area and the Piper was an outside influence who lured the youth of Hamelin away from the mediocrity of a peasant's life in much the way that Abbie Hoffman and others enticed the youth of suburbia away from home in the 60's. It is said in the poem that there is a commune of sorts in the area that may have been the decendents of the kids from Hamelin. Who knows? interesting, though. Check it out:
www.straightdope.com/mail...piper.html
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Marks
Unregistered User
(2/20/04 6:40 pm)
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another thing
The original date attributed to the event isn't far from the time of another ambiguous even; the Children's Crusade. Little is really known about this, either, and one may have had something to do with the other. Something was obviously going on in Europe at the time. The Franciscan movement may have been connected to this as well. One thing influencing another, so to speak.
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Jess
Unregistered User
(2/20/04 10:36 pm)
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Thanks, Marks
That was a fascinating read. Does make you wonder what the "real story" behind the story is.
Jess
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coccinelle
du lioncourt
Registered User
(5/13/04 3:52 pm)
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Ped Piper French Version
Hello,
Does anyone know of a french version of the Pied Piper. It does not have to be exact, just anything that seems related to or inspiered by the Pied Piper.
Thank you
Coccinelle du Lioncourt
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bielie
Registered User
(5/17/04 1:54 pm)
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Re: Ped Piper French Version
I may be wrong, but the PP of H sounds like the black death to me:
There's a rat plague
The rats get the plague and die
The fleas move on to humeans when all the rats are gone.
The humans die. Off course the death of the children causes the most grief.
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Nalo
Registered User
(5/18/04 8:13 am)
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Re: Ped Piper French Version
I've often thought it had something to do with the Plague, too.
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aka
Greensleeves
(5/18/04 10:45 am)
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Re: Ped Piper French Version
I'm sure someone knows more about this than I (my memory of the
story is full of holes), but a good friend of mine visited Hamelin
several years ago on a trip to Germany. She told me that there's
a very old plaque on one of the city buildings, commemorating
the event. It says something about the children leaving, but the
way it's written, she said it can be interpreted not as literal
children, but as "children of God," meaning--any villager.
Now, I can't remember if it was specific about what the event was (plague, Crusade, etc), *or* if she was told the story had arisen as an origin myth to explain the sign.
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Erica
Carlson
Registered User
(5/18/04 11:34 am)
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Re: Ped Piper French Version
There's a book called A
World Lit Only By Fire by Manchester that basically says
the Pied Piper was a serial killer--it's an interesting read, but
I believe Manchester has been criticized for not backing up his
story with scholarly evidence.
E.
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Lotti
Unregistered User
(5/18/04 1:19 pm)
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Homepage of Hameln (Hamelin)
Hi, you might enjoy a visit to the homepage of Hameln, who have some info on the Pied Piper, including a summary of the legend and also some interpretation:
www.hameln.com/tourism/pi...age_gb.htm
The interpretation there is more or less what Greensleeves' friend told her from her visit to Hameln, the event being the Settlement of the "Wild East" ;-)
Regards, Lotti
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aka
Greensleeves
(5/18/04 4:04 pm)
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Re: Homepage of Hameln (Hamelin)
Thank you, Lotti, for clearing that up!
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redtriskell
Registered User
(5/18/04 10:22 pm)
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pied pipers
Well, this may be off topic, but Terry Pratchett's novel, "The
Amazing Maurice and his Educated Rodents", is based on
the pied piper story. Some interesting notes about rats in the back
of the book, also. Of course, when I say "based on" I
mean "as much as he bases anything on." It's a great story,
in any case.
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janeyolen
Registered User
(5/19/04 4:45 am)
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Re: pied pipers
In the spring, Tor will bring out a YA book that my son Adam Stemple
and I wrote called "Pay
the Piper" which brings a faery prince thrown out of his
kingdom for killing his brother into modern Northampton, Mass. He
is the pied piper (playing in a rock-and-reel band) and a 14 year
old girl has to rescue the kids in the neighborhood who have been
taken by him before they are brought into Faerie as a blood tithe.
So the pied piper keeps on living and giving (or taking!)
Jane
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JenCrouse
Registered User
(6/23/04 6:13 pm)
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RE: Pied Piper
Forgive my ignorance, but what, exactly, does "Pied" mean?
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Helen
J Pilinovsky
Registered User
(6/23/04 8:45 pm)
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Meaning of "Pied"
Dear Jen:
In this context, I believe that "Pied" would refer to the nature of his costume, following the same basic design as a jester's outfit: it may be a reference to the Commedia del'Arte style favored by traveling performers. I could be wrong here - that's just how I've always read it.
Best,
Helen
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JenCrouse
Registered User
(6/23/04 10:15 pm)
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Meaning of "Pied"
You are a fount of knowledge - thank you! I have read the "Pied Piper" many times, but the books I read had him illustrated as a traveler would be. I couldn't find the word used anywhere else, not even in my dictionary. I thought perhaps it referred to his complexion (piebald?) or demeanor or that he was possibly someone who liked to drink. (His time spent in a gutter recovering from his latest binge enhancing his rapport with the rats who live there?) I've grown attached to that last theory and am sad to let it go, but your definition seems so much more sensible that I suppose I must.
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Nalo
Registered User
(6/24/04 7:37 am)
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Re: Meaning of "Pied"
"Pied," iirc, means many-coloured. I think the Pied Piper traditionally wears a jacket that's been patched many times, with different colours of cloth. There's a song about the cuckoo (from Shakespeare?) that I was taught in primary school. It begins
When daisies pied and violets blue,
And lady-smocks all silver-white,
And turtle doves of yellow hue,
Do paint the meadows with delight,
The cuckoo then, on every tree,
Proclaims the spring, and thus sings he,
(and thus sings he, and thus sings he,)
"Cuckoo. Cuckoo. Cuckoo, Cuckoo,"
His voice we hear, his voice we hear,
Makes married men all quake with fear.
(Actually, for that last line, they taught us, "most pleasing to a listening ear," but when I found the original, it had the bit about married men too.)
I guess that daisies are "pied" because there are many colours of daisies. And I think "piebald" may have the same root.
Edited by: Nalo at: 6/25/04 10:16 am
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selkie
no
Registered User
(6/30/04 3:49 pm)
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Modern versions
If you are interested in modern versions Atom Egoyans film "The
Sweet Hereafter" (1997) is a very interesting study of
this tale.
Also, Henrik Ibsen draws heavily on the it in his play "Little
Eyolf" (1894)
Selkie
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CrCeres
Unregistered User
(7/9/04 1:58 pm)
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Hamelin's colony
Somewhere I heard that there was a town in the mountains (more in Asia than Europe), and that its customs, dress, and language was much more like Hamelin's than any of the surrounding culture. The theory is that this is where the children of Hamelin were lead and left.
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