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Author
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Comment
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deathcookie
Registered User
(8/9/05 8:10 pm)
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patricia mckillip's winter rose
I just finished this book, and thought it was beautifully written and captivating, but I have trouble really understanding what happened. Was it based on Tam Lin? I hate to sound ignorant, but this one really threw me. Has anyone here read it and understood what was going on? I'd really appreciate hearing other viewpoints about it.
Thanks,
Callie
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dlee10
Registered User
(8/10/05 2:06 pm)
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Re: patricia mckillip's winter rose
I got this book from the library a few years back. I was so impressed with the beauty of the langage I bought it. I never got the Tam Lin connection personally but then I seldom delve beneath the surface. I would love to follow a chat on this book!
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aka Greensleeves
Registered User
(8/11/05 1:17 pm)
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Re: patricia mckillip's winter rose
I love this book. It's one of my favorites. I recently lent it to a woman in my critique group, and she also found it hard to follow, which surprised me... but I've read it so many times that I pretty much know it by heart.
I've always looked at it as a hybrid of Christina Rossetti's "Goblin Market" and "Tam Lin." In fact, I was so attached to its "Goblin Market" origins that I didn't realize until I saw it on a list of "Tam Lin" retellings that it was that, too! And here they're named Lynn and everything.... ;)
So... what's troubling you? I can probably untangle some plot points for you, though I haven't read it in about a year.
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deathcookie
Registered User
(8/12/05 2:35 pm)
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winter rose?
well, I guess it's that I'm just not really sure what happened. Did corbett appear to rois' mother and then she pined for him long ago, or perhaps she was pining for tearle? Or was whoever she pined for completely unrelated to the Lynns? And I understood that Rois evidently was not the full sister of Laurel, but then what was her father? Was he of the same nature as the Winter Queen who held Corbett captive?
When Corbett gives Rois the ring at the end of the book, was he proposing to her in an off-hand sort of way? And why in the world did he fall for Laurel? Just because of her beauty? I got it that the Tam Lin connection comes from the way Rois saves him by holding onto him "whatever form he may take," but since she's the one who saves him, not Laurel, I felt that he should have truly loved Rois.
And what about those horses?
Just a few questions,
Callie
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darklingthrush
Registered User
(8/15/05 8:42 am)
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Re: winter rose?
I actually prefer this book's very dreamlike, vague quality. It remains one of my favorite Patricia McKillip novels (up there with the Forgotten Beasts of Eld and the Changeling Sea.)
I'm not sure that Rois ever comes to a perfect conclusion about her mother but she definately makes peace with her memory. If there was a faery man that visited her he is not one of the Lynns, I think that is certain enough. I had the idea that Rois' mother was instead enchanted with Nature in general, just like Rois herself. When Corbett finds and gives back her mother's ring, I think it is very symbolic of Rois regaining trust in her mother's memory and in her place in her family. It is of course also a sign of Corbett being generous and thinking of other's which is a sign of the enchantment over him breaking.
If Rois is half-fey or fully human, she decides the love of her human family and father is more potent and important than any magic blood could be in her veins.
As for Corbett falling for Laurel, I assume that is because she is much more human in his eyes than Rois. Laurel is steady, domestic and of course lovely to look on. Whereas Rois reminds him probably too much of his fey half with her wild hair, bare feet, inquisitive exploration of faery things. I think he falls in love with the idea of Laurel. (Of course, I might just be a little ungenerous with that pronouncement since we see very little of their courtship.) I think it makes the bravery of Rois and her willingness to save this man even more amazing as she might just be giving him back to her sister knowingly.
As far as him loving Rois back, I think there is a great suggestion of him possibly being attracted to her at the end. I love the open possibilities that the ending promises. We have Rois changing a bit with her boots on, riding a horse to see Corbett. And we have a Corbett at the end who recognizes that change in Rois and is seemingly much warmer and more fully human than before. I'm not sure that he could have fully loved any human woman the way he was before (especially in the thrall of the Faery Queen.)
As far as horses go, I'm assuming you're talking about the riders in the night. They would of course be a sort of Seelie Court. They do seem to be the transport of choice in most tales of the Court. And of course, there is mention of horses in the Tam Lin ballad (as he describes which horse and where in the procession he will be riding.)
I definately saw the tie-in with the Tam Lin ballad: the roses, the Faery Queen, the changing shape of Tam Lin, the faithful heart of the woman who loves him, even the mercurial nature of Tam Lin's emotions themselves (hot and cold). The names of the sisters however did remind me of Rose Red and Snow White.
This is all definately my own interpretation of the book however and I welcome other responses, especially to how the mother of Rois was perceived.
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deathcookie
Registered User
(8/18/05 11:05 am)
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Re: winter rose?
Thanks, Darkling Thrush,
That helps me understand it a little better. I am thinking of reading it again to catch all the flavors.
I thought someone mentioned once that there was also references to Herne the Hunter in this book?
Thanks,
Callie
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Gunnlods
Cup
Registered User
(8/18/05 9:02 pm)
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Re: winter rose?
Right writer, wrong book. :D
You're thinking of The Book of Atrix Wolfe, also by McKillip.
The Queen of the Wood's husband is turned into a dark hunter by a mage in the Prologue. A kind of Herne-like character in his aspect as of the leader of the Wild Hunt.
I agree with Darklingthrush, I think Corbet is in love with the sheer, grounded humanness of Laurel, something completely alien to him, and something he thinks he needs in order to escape from the Faery Queen.
I Interpreted the part with Rois’ mother as her being in love with an actual person though, a member of the Queen’s court, rather than just nature. I never really decided if I thought he was of the Queen’s court, because he was fey himself, or because he was human, and trapped, and was trying to use her to escape the Queen’s Woods, as Corbet was with Laurel.
Brenda
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deathcookie
Registered User
(8/20/05 10:49 pm)
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Re: patricia mckillip's winter rose
Thanks Brenda,
I like that thought, that maybe Rois' mother was in love with another captive of faery, like Corbett. That is food for thought.
And I will definitely check out Atrix Wolfe. Mckillip is my new favorite author right now, I just finished Forgotten Beasts of Eld and LOVED IT!
THanks,
Callie
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LilyMaid
Unregistered User
(8/26/05 7:54 am)
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re: Winter Rose
Hi,
McKillip is one of my favourite authors, too. I just re-read Winter Rose so I could join in this discussion. Summer is turning rather Autumnal in England, which made it rather more seasonal than i was expecting.
I read it as a Tam Lin story (though I’m showing my obsessions – another two of my favourite books are Tam Lin by Pamela Dean and Fire and Hemlock by Diana Wynne-Jones, both also versions of Tam Lin.) Thomas the Rhymer is there, too - remember Corbet plays the flute. I hadn’t thought of the Goblin Market connection. That’s a very interesting idea. This time I was struck by how much the Winter Queen is a Snow Queen character. Rois has to venture into winter to save Corbet; Corbet has a sliver of ice in his heart. The Winter Queen’s realm is one of death, like the Snow Queen’s. Like all good fairy tale writers Mckillip gathers in the strands and weaves her own tale out of them.
I love the fact that the dream world Rois and Corbet share is never quite acknowledged in real time. I love the scene where Laurel’s father and Perrin talk about cows and Laurel wonders if that is all there is to life. I love the fact that Laurel’s pining for Corbet is tied into missing her mother, just as Rois’ wild love of the woods is. I don’t think it is particularly implied that Rois’s mother’s lover is one of the Lynns, just that she could see more in a shaft of sunlight, enough to take a lover, not as much as Rois. Rois loves the woods but learns through the Winter Queen they hold death and isolation, and she chooses to root herself in her family: Laurel, her father, and the possibility of love rather than the ghostly wild world she remembers her mother inhabiting. Though the question of her paternity remains vague I think it is clear that Rois chooses as her father the man who raised her. After all blood fathers (Tearle, Nial) don’t show up too well in this novel. Rois loves the woods but within beauty lies death; there’s a heartlessness in it. Rois chooses love, of her family, of Corbet, of life. Her mother chose death, Rois chooses life. As for the ending, I think it is fairly clear that there is the possibility of a future for Rois and Corbet. He invites her into his rose garden! She is surprised that the roses have survived through this bitter winter. He asks her to look at them. She agrees. I think that suggests love. Anyway, just some thoughts.
My other favourite McKillip novels are the Riddlemaster of Hed trilogy, which was the first thing I read by her and was totally captivated by. I also love Forgotten Beasts of Eld and Stepping from the Shadows (which I always took to by slightly more autobiographical. Herne features fairly prominently in this one way or another.) I am waiting as I write for Amazon to deliver her new book to my door….
Happy reading and many thanks, Ellen
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deathcookie
Registered User
(8/26/05 3:42 pm)
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Re: re: Winter Rose
Thanks for your thoughts! I am currently reading Fire and Hemlock by Diana Wynne-Jones. I guess I'm going through a Tam Lin obsession myself. I'm still in the early parts of the book, but I'm eager to see how it ties into Tam Lin in story, since so far the plot is quite peculiar. I almost wonder if it's meant to be comic? but shame on me for trying to draw conclusions about a book without finishing it yet!
-Callie
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Heidi Anne Heiner
ezOP
(8/26/05 7:45 pm)
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Re: re: Winter Rose
I have a Tam Lin Listmania List on Amazon.com. Here's a link to anyone who's interested.
Tam Lin Books
Heidi
Edited by: Heidi Anne Heiner at: 8/26/05 7:49 pm
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