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Author
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Comment
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cmoore0013
Unregistered User
(6/15/05 11:14 pm)
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Hansel and Gretel film ideas
Hi,
As most of you know, I have been working on my series of fairy tale films for some time now. With Snow White still in a filming hiatus(due to some script problems, which I'd love some help with). Cinderella is filming quite well now.
I decided to begin brainstorming about my next project. Hansel and Gretel.
My last two films were/are both period peices, but I don't know If I should go modern with this tale. What do you think?
I want the film to be cruel and cold the whole way through. Even after the escape in the end, I want a cold atmosphere of no hope.
The film will be faithful to the original story, except I might decide to add in another sibling of the children, who dissapeared under mysterious circumstances years ago.
Once they are lost in the woods, they meet another lost boy named Nicholas, who lost his sister in the woods. He eventually dissapears and he is not seen until Hansel and Gretel reach the witche's house.
As for the house itself, I have some ideas. I want a garden of ginderbread figures of children. A times, I want them to move and make small gestures(like frowning, crying, bleeding, etc.). The roof is actually made by dead children trapped in chocholate. The house itself is made of gingerbead and cake.
When the witch is first seen, I want her to be beautiful, but later that night Gretel spies on her peeling off her face to reveal the ugly witch we all know and hate.
Toby shows up at this point. He has been captured by the witch and is almost ready to be eaten. Eventually, he is kileld right before Gretel's eyes and cooked.
Many suspenseful scenes deal with Hansel and Gretel trying to escape from the house.
Many ghosts haunt the house and closets are full of body parts and bones. Many wax, caramel, and chocholate status of children are preserved and are all aroun d the house. Sometimes they move and speak to the children. Before Toby dies, he gives them his chicken bone, which later becomes a tool for te witch delaying her next meal (which is Hansel).
At the end, the witch is boiled alive in gingerbread and is then cooked in the oven. The witch dies and the curses are broken. The house explodes and catches on fire, the childrens souls can go up to heaven and Hansel and Gretel are free.
What do you think. Any things to change. Anything to add? Anything?
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Veronica
Schanoes
Registered User
(6/16/05 3:37 am)
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Re: Hansel and Gretel film ideas
I don't think it should be a problem to maintain a sense of bleakness after the witch's death. It's always seemed to me that the fairy tale glosses over a problem, which is that the happy ending involves a return to the same father who abandoned them in the beginning of the story. There is something bleak there about children's options in this world, and their dependence upon untrustworthy adults.
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cmoore0013
Unregistered User
(6/16/05 7:06 pm)
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Re: Hansel and Gretel film ideas
I agree with the parent issue. I don't know why they would want to go back to a weak father who would just do anything a person tells him to. Maybe that's why they were in this whole starvation thing in the first place. The father is obviously weak and can't do much of anything and their mother/stepmother is just a plain, well you know what.
I think I might leave it open ended and close the film witht he children walking away in the woods. The whole magical duck and overly dramtic return to home always seemed cheesey to me.
Why are fathers so weak in fairy tales?
Edited by: Heidi Anne Heiner at: 6/17/05 9:46 am
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Helen
J Pilinovsky
Registered User
(6/17/05 1:57 am)
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Re: Hansel and Gretel film ideas
Dear cmoore:
I think that the idea of excising that portion of the ending is very fitting for the tone of the piece that you're envisioning! The one piece which I remember as incorporating that element successfully was a lovely satiric piece in one of the TW/ED fairy tale anthologies, told from the perspective of a rather skeptical magistrate ("So ... you killed the old woman, took her money, and escaped to safety on .... a duck. I see ..."), but, unfortunately, I can't quite think of the title at the moment. Out of curiousity, would there be any previous retellings of this tale type which you particularly admire?
Best,
Helen
P.S. - You mention previous films. Are these available for viewing?
Edited by: Heidi Anne Heiner at: 6/17/05 9:46 am
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Veronica
Schanoes
Registered User
(6/17/05 2:02 am)
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Re: Hansel and Gretel film ideas
Oh, cmoore, I have a question for you! Are you thinking of having the same actress play the (step)mother as the witch, the way that Mr. Darling and Captain Hook usually get doubled in Peter Pan productions? It could add to the sense of hopelessness--no matter where you run, you can't escape.
Edited by: Heidi Anne Heiner at: 6/17/05 9:47 am
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Veronica
Schanoes
Registered User
(6/17/05 5:07 am)
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Re: Re: Hansel and Gretel film ideas
Helen--I remember that story too! But I don't remember it being quite as funny as your account of it is (you need to write that!)...I remember it being quite unpleasant and bleak, with H&G on trial for witchcraft, about to be hanged, and them being rather nasty pieces of work themselves. In fact, in terms of atmosphere, it might be a very good place for cmoore to turn for inspiration. Are we thinking of the same story?
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Heidi
Anne Heiner
ezOP
(6/17/05 9:53 am)
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Re: Hansel and Gretel film ideas
Sorry about the edits. They were carefully considered. My motivation
is explained here: The Moderator Speaks: Attention DerekJ and everyone
else
Just a reminder: I control the edit button, DerekJ. Play respectfully or go away you shall.
It's a beautiful summer day in my neck of the world. Everyone have a wonderful weekend!
Heidi
Edited by: Heidi Anne Heiner at: 6/17/05 9:55 am
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LostBoyTootles
Registered User
(6/17/05 6:08 pm)
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Re: Hansel and Gretel film ideas
As far as period, I've always thought a Hansel and Gretel set during the Great Depression would make for an interesting story... the stepmother and father literally can't afford to keep their children, so they sneak them onto a train, where they meet a hobo Witch who sort of adopts them and takes them back to her home.
cmoore, I remember you posting a website for your movies... would
you mind posting that link again? I'm curious. :D
Tootles~~If I can't be anything important, would you like to see me do a trick? |
cmoore0013
Unregistered User
(6/17/05 10:26 pm)
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Thank you!
Thank you all for posting back.
I have liked the Faerie Tale Theatre and cannon Movie Tale versions. The cartoon always seem to be really sweet and dull.
I'm not sure if I will use the same actresses to play the role. I like the idea. I know it was done with the Faerie Tale Theatre version with Joan Collins. I actually might. I'm stiull thinking of wheter or not she should be the mother or stepmother.
I rememebr seeing a peice on a school Speech and Debate team once, a long time ago which had two actors playing the brother and sister. They might have been on trial, but I can't remember. I know that they switched the tone many times from film noir and musical comedy everyhting like that.
The depression would be a good place to set it. I know the film will be a hard R rating, if it is rated. The ratings board actually judge on the tone of the film .A story like this could never get a PG or PG-13 rating these days. It's too dark and bleak.
The link to my company's temporary site is: www.freewebs.com/goldenfilms/
Pardon the condition of the site. We are going through updates. I have also made a horror film with my company called North Woods.
The temporrary listing is called Golden Movie Tales(tempororary working title)
Snow White and Cinderella videos and DVDs will be avavlible to order by Christmas.
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LostBoyTootles
Registered User
(6/18/05 11:09 am)
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Re: Hansel and Gretel film ideas
More and more films that should have been R seem to be getting by on PG-13 these days, so you never know what the rating might be.
Tootles~~If I can't be anything important, would you like to see me do a trick? |
cmoore0013
Unregistered User
(6/18/05 5:22 pm)
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PG-13
I know what you mean.
Some films like The Ring and the upcoming Dark Water are films that are made to be PG-13. Those are O.K. The problem I have is when greedy studios cut their films up to get more money from the teen crowd. The Grudge, Darkness, Boogeyman, Darkness Falls, the upcoming Brothers Grimm, and many others are victims of this.
It's not right. Filmakers try to make a decent movie and bang, the studios cut tit down to a level where it cuts so fast and quickly, you have no idead what is ahppening. The horror genre is one that needs to be R rated. We have a select few films that can get by with out an R. The only sub-genre that seems to be safe is the slasher genre. Can you imagine Texas Chainsaw, Friday the 13th or the new House of Wax remake cut down to PG-13? They still make amazing profits.
I wish studios would get a clue. If the script is too horrible to get past the MPAA with a PG-13, just give it to a braver studio like Lion's Gate or New Line.
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Erin
Registered User
(6/28/05 1:59 pm)
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Re: Thank you!
I seem to remember your company name & website. Did you, perhaps,
frequent Rewind
Video?
I'm totally jealous that you're in production on your fairy tale
films! I have a series of scripts that I've been working on but
I keep pushing them back for less expensive projects. Someday
I'll get to work on them.
Anyway, since I don't have anything actually useful to throw in, I'll just say good luck (and that I hope you'll share a trailer or some pictures or something with us ;-)
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DerekJ
Unregistered User
(6/28/05 4:11 pm)
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Re: Thank you!
>>The depression would be a good place to set it. I know the film will be a hard R rating, if it is rated. The ratings board actually judge on the tone of the film .A story like this could never get a PG or PG-13 rating these days. It's too dark and bleak.<<
Yep, sure would be, and it wasn't--Thirty years ago:
www.imdb.com/title/tt0067983/plotsummary
(At the end of the movie, the children are survival-empowered enough to concoct their own nasty trap-reversal and escape--And as the police clean up afterwards and the two children are happily returned to the orphanage, we hear one of the policemen mutter, "Poor kids...They'll probably be traumatized for life".
As a last exchanged look between the two ends on a distinct note
of "...Not likely. :) "
...Sorry if the "Clever children doing it for themselves" note interferes with our hoped-for "Bleak aspect of no hope, and lotsa cool gory stuff, too" theme, but that's sort of what I meant earlier about "Looking for what isn't there, and beating our head because we can't seem to find it.")
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cmoore0013
Unregistered User
(6/29/05 1:07 pm)
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Interesting
I find your ideas for the ending interesting. I think it could work, it might add one last ray of hope to the whole film. I actually had a weird idea that Gretel is a little traumatized by the whole incident, they return home to their father and Gretel ends up killing their father. I don't know why, I just always thought it would be creepy to see Gretel kill her father and picking up on the witches homicidal instincts.
Casting should begin in September. Our 2 leads have been picked.
Snow White has been te most troubled production I've ever worked on. The cast keeps changing and we have to re-shoot andf re-write a lot.
Cinderella has been somewhat of a dream shoot. Everyone is committed and eager to work their hardest. Besides some last minute re-casting, it's been good.
The treatment of Hansel and Gretel has been well recived by many actors.
BTW, I hope you do get to make your films someday. It might be sooner than you think. To make the candy housein this film, we simply bought a lot of candy and attatched it to an old house. The overall budjet is about $600 maximum for all 3 films so far. It really does help to re-use sets and costumes.
If you have any ideas or would like to contact me about filmmaking questions or ideas, please e-mail me at: cmoore0013@aol.com We could even work in your vision of the film/s.
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Erin
Registered User
(6/30/05 4:39 pm)
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Re: Interesting
What period did you set your last films in? I think that's the biggest problem with my projects =/ Costuming is easy for me (I can do all of that myself), but I have so much trouble finding locations that look somewhat authentic. I guess there is always shooting it in the studio and chroma keying something in later, but that's not as fun for the actors. I do have a somewhat modern Tamlane story that I'll probably do after we finish the 16mm film noir we're in preproduction for.
I hope I get to see your movies once they are released. It's always great to see what other independents are up to. I'm actually thinking of doing weekly indie movie showcase for my school's tv station. If I do, it'd be great to get your fairy tale movies for that (if you're interested in me showing them, I guess it would depend on how you distribute?)
I guess the easiest way to get ahold of me is either at erinlarbogast@yahoo.com
or through Our
Website
I apologize if this is getting too far off topic, I'm just excited ;-)
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cmoore0013
Unregistered User
(6/30/05 9:38 pm)
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films
well, I use indoor sets for the indoor sceens. We usually film in the woods or countryside. For castle shots, it's really helpful to watch European documentaries. They have lots of castle shots in there. My actors are always confused by the storylines, since most of them grew up to the tame Disney versions. They love it. My actresses in Cinderella were laughing the day thye had to get their feet chopped up.
I think I've got a couple of posters and pictures that I'll try to send your way. All I have is two teasers for Snow White and Cinderella. The films are not digital, so i cant send them anywhere or post them.
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DividedSelf
Registered User
(7/3/05 11:24 am)
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Re: films
cmoore - I've no idea what your films are like, but am interested in your motivation. I think, in principle, it could be an extremely valuable project.
Children older than around 6 seem to hold fairy tales more or less in contempt as "baby stuff" - except presumably in enlightened households. But put them in front of a fairy tale film and you can't tear them away.
Also, it'll be interesting to see how low budget film making influences the development of folk tales. Could it be a rebirth of the fluidity of the oral tradition?
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pelly14
Registered User
(7/3/05 6:04 pm)
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Re: Hansel and Gretel film ideas
I think its a great idea. I mean i would watch it. but im also 14. Parents might not like that fact that its that i dont wat to call it but they might not like there little kids watching it. I dont think its bad. I think it sounds awsome, i know my friends and i would watch it. well good luck!
~quickly love, evils afoot~
*pelly14*
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cmoore0013
Unregistered User
(7/4/05 1:13 am)
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Parents
Yes.
Many parents probably won't like the violent content. As a matter of fact, Hansel and Gretel in particular will be left Unrated, because I know it will get slapped with a hard R rating. I researched all the tales and different versions and watched many different fairy tale films. All of them have something different to tell.
My goal is to make children's entertainment, that isn't made for just children. Most of the Hansel and Gretel script is filled with horrifying images of death, starvation, hatred, poverty and gore. I think kids are smart enough to know that it's just a movie.
Snow White has many sexual overtones as well as a couple of violent scenes and blood. Children will not pick up on the sexual side of the film, though.
I'm just so excited. We have been blessed with great casts so far. Many of the projects are musicals which doesn't always help, but the actors are very good in keeping things realistic.
I wish I could post pictures, posters, or trailers, but the films are not shot on a digital format, so it's nearly impossible at the moment. I'm trying to see if my webcam will pick up the trailer.
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IbuCat
Registered User
(7/16/05 11:21 pm)
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Re: films
Don't know if this will be helpful or timely but maybe the Anthony browne picture book of Hansel and Gretel could be a good source of inspiration? It is set in modern times and loaded with symbolism.
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cmoore0013
Unregistered User
(7/17/05 6:58 am)
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thanks
oh yes. Thank you.
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