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Author
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Comment
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Dark Siren
Unregistered User
(5/21/05 9:07 am)
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Re: plot in anita blake
About Blue Moon - I hate that book.Apart from...well,okay,I hate
the bit where she sleeps with Richard.The rest's okay.
That's "Incubus Dreams",and it's he's not a new second,that's still Asher,but Requiem - one of those "two cute little strippers" - is Jean-Claude's third now.And I don't think he's a stripper.
Didn't I say 12 in the list I gave earlier?I'm sure I did...
...
Nope,he's not a stripper,nobody in the higher chain of command is...it would hardly be fair,would it?And besides,it would be just plain cruel to make Asher strip in a club.Let's just not go there.
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beautifulstars
Unregistered User
(5/21/05 1:20 pm)
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anita blake
Don't you hate it when you write something out and it gets eaten?
Dark Siren-- I think we definitely have differing opinions on Jean-Claude and Richard. Which is part of what makes Hamilton's books great---Anita literally has a lover to please everyone.
I think what intrigued me most about Blue Moon was the change of setting, just like I enjoyed Obisidian Butterfly for the change of setting (although I missed the boys). I find that whole part of the lower States really intriguing as a setting, and so am pleased when she explores further.
You'll have to forgive my lack of specifics when it comes to recalling the titles/scenes. Most of the books were passed on to me while I was travelling, and then in turn passed on by me, so I only have a few of them. I also find them so continuous (another reason they're grat), that it's often hard for me to seperate them into books.
Out of interest, have you read any of Kelley Armstrong's books?
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neverossa
Registered User
(5/22/05 4:03 am)
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Re: Wolves, Beasts, and other Big Bads.
Every woman adores a Fascist,
The boot in the face, the brute
Brute heart of a brute like you.
Every time I think of violent relationships I've these exasperated verses of Sylvia Plath in my mind. They're provoking and their provocation fits well with the topic of the beast in fairy tales, the otherness, the wild, the fear of abuse, the violence that is at the source of every passion. Because when we have to do with passion – and fairy tales in general deal with the beginning of sexual consciousness, of adolescence, the discovery of our own body and self and of the other – first we have to do with violence, trying to push ourselves safe through it. Meeting the wolf – like in Little Red Riding Hood - is meeting it first inside us, knowing that particular force that devours, but even creates if we are able to manage it. The wolf has an important rule in alchemy for example, where it is the lupus metallorum, the phase in which we cross blackness, literally we die, to come outside again, new, to born like a bright, powerful lion. That is destruction is not always the end of everything – violence is not always abuse, but sometimes leads to a mature stage of being, to love and experience. Is it not the wolf in mythologies (Egyptian, Celtic, Nordic) the creature that drives us into the realm of death? We feel an attraction for beasts, for the ferocious, because we feel it for a boundary that we cross in life. In tales this boundaries is adolescence, but there are so many, when we move on living! We are crossing pain and darkness to understand light. Sorry that I’m writing so much, but this is a wonderful topic… I’m going to end with an example, and without mentioning Carter’s fairy tales that are the base for this discourse: in the poem Little Red Cap, by Carol Ann Duffy, LRC kills the wolf – crosses the darkness – after she has learned from him what she needed (in this case language, poetry)… she doesn’t really need any boring huntsman.
Edited by: neverossa at: 5/22/05 10:45 am
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beautifulstars
Unregistered User
(5/22/05 9:51 am)
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wolves, beasts and other big bads
Nerverossa-- I think you put that beautifully, and much more articulately than I am able.
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Dark Siren
Unregistered User
(5/22/05 12:54 pm)
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Re: wolves,beasts
and other big bads
beautifulstars - you should really talk to my friend Senga.She's there with you on the whole Richard thing,though she's a devoted Micah and Nathaniel supporter too.So am I but then I think we covered the part about me loving all the guys except Richard.Ho hum.
Haven't read Armstrong yet,but I hear she's good.You read Sherrily Kenyon's "Dark-Hunters?"They're so addictive,perfect Anita substitute.I love the south,especially Louisianna,so lucky for me most of the Dark-Hunter books are set in New Orleans(there's two that aren't,Zarek(Alaska),and Danger/Alexion(somewhere midwest,I think)).If you haven't read them,seriously - do.
Senga skipped book 9(I've just got her started on Dark-Hunter,she's trying to get me on Darren Shan),and I'll admit it took me longer than normal to read.I think what happened was that people were complaining about the style,and she wanted to prove that Anita could be successful on the booklist without the boys.(Strange how you just automatically start calling them that after Anita does.And did you notice that Anita and Richard's first break-up coincided with her divorce with her first husband?Her mother also died in a car-crash,and she was raised by her grandmother,like Merry.)
Nerverossa - rock on!
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Nalo
Registered User
(5/22/05 1:31 pm)
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Re: Wolves, Beasts, and other Big Bads.
Thanks, neverossa. As I've been reading this thread, I'd been searching for the words to articulate some of what you've already said beautifully; I'm playing amateur psychologist here, but I have a hunch that loving the beast in these stories is in some case a way of externalising the "beast" or the other in us, so that we can love it and perhaps eventually own that the beast is us. I suspect that can be particularly useful for someone struggling with a subconscious realization of something to do with their own identity, especially if they know only too well that were that identity to become visible, a lot of people would react negatively. Feels akin to me with the phenomenon of the woman who contrives to have sex with a queer man before coming out as a lesbian or queer herself. (Maybe some men do the equivalent of this too; I just don't know.) By reading the beast bridegroom stories, you can "try on" "beastliness", experience what it is that scares people (yourself included), what it is that compels them, and experience that the beast in you can be loveable and loved. I hope I'm making some sense here.
And sometimes, because human beings are complex creatures, it's not so benign. I've been thinking about this a lot lately, because I just wrote a story that was going to be a moderately straightforward beast bridegroom story with a bit of a twist, but the twist took a turn on me (so to speak), and I ended up with a horror story that quite clearly references a particularly disturbing multiple murder case in recent Canadian history. Sometimes the beast within is in fact a monster, not just misunderstood. Now I'm left not quite knowing what to do with this story, because the events that it references are still fresh in Canadian minds, the families of the victims are still very much alive and dealing with their horrible loss, and one of the perpetrators is about to get out of jail. This is no fairy tale, although I've written it as a fairy tale variant.
That being said, I don't believe at all that violent acts in fantasy are always rehearsal for doing them in real life; sometimes, perhaps, but in the vast majority of cases, not in the least. As someone else has pointed out, we all have violent fantasies. It would never occur to most of us to carry them out.
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beautifulstars
Unregistered User
(5/23/05 8:34 am)
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response
DarkSiren--- ooo, I am always looking for a Blake subsitute in-between
books, as I hate waiting months for the next one to come out. I
will definitely check her out. As far as Obisidian Butterfly proving
that Anita could exist without the boys, I think that the character
did quite well standing on her own two feet, although it is more
exciting with the boys around. There are photos somewhere, as well,
of Hamilton's wedding, and she looks so much more....hrm...I guess
benign and happy would be the word...than I would expect for someone
who writes so darkly and passionately.
Nola---Being Canadian, I immediately knew which case you were referring to. That's been a topic of conversation recently everywhere, considering her imminent release. I think the reception of your story would depend on the references to the case--are they recognizably factual, or do you just borrow some of the same aesthetic?
As for your comment "the phenomenon of the woman who contrives to have sex with a queer man before coming out as a lesbian or queer herself. (Maybe some men do the equivalent of this too; I just don't know.) ": I have a friend who is a self-designated 'hag' and is very supportive of homosexuality, although she herself is very straight (although she likes adrogynous boys). However, oddly or not, she always attracts boys who are on the brink of 'discovering' their homosexuality. She thinks she acts like a supportive conduit into their true self. It's almost uncanny, actually, how this happens with almost every guy she dates. Thought you'd be interested to know. And I agree completely with what you said.
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neverossa
Registered User
(5/23/05 1:58 pm)
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violence in reality
That's the problem with violence. Violence is in everyone, is one of our primary feelings, but when it crosses the borders we can become Bluebeard, it doesn't matter if we are men or women... and yet Bluebeard himself once was a real man. How many historians, folklorists and writers have speculated on that strange man that was Gilles de Rais in fifteenth century France, from noble knight (mate of Joan d'Arc) to a monster that abused and killed so many children and adolescents... In this regard I think that Huysmans novel (La bas, I don't know the English translation, something like The abyss) is still one of the most intriguing work, because even if the brutality of Gilles is depicted, his aberration is felt as completely (and desolately) human. You hate what this man did. But just at the bottom of yourself the same beast cry for recognition... How complex we are...
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Nalo
Registered User
(5/23/05 10:24 pm)
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Re: response
My name is spelled "Nalo," not "Nola." (Don't sweat it; a lot of people from North America reverse the vowels in my name.) Tks for the data point about men having sex with an opposite sex queer icon before coming out themselves; that's really interesting to know. As to my story, it's before an editor now; she'll decide what she decides.
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beautifulstars
Unregistered User
(5/24/05 6:49 am)
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names
nalo--sorry! i must have subconsciously switched those letters! 'nalo' is quite a bit more interesting than nola.
as for your story, i wish you luck, because personally i think anything that might shed some different perspective or light on the case is highly useful and mighty fascinating. as with most things, sometimes you just need a different way to look at it.
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Dark Siren
Unregistered User
(5/24/05 12:55 pm)
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My own responses
Neverossa - Bluebeard went with Joan orf Arc?So weird,I was just watching "Joan of Arcadia" on LivingTV.("Gilmore Girls" before that on Hallmark.)
nalo - good luck.
beautifulstars - have to agree about the excitment.Have you noticed how different she looks in those pictures to the one on the homepage?On Kenyon's site,they have a "Guess Who" page,where you have to decide whether it's Hamilton or Kenyon.It's so weird how alike they are.
That is,they do at www.dark-hunter.com Just click the "Sherrilyn Kenyon" link on the list - on the left at the bottom.
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neverossa
Registered User
(5/24/05 2:52 pm)
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Joan of Arc and Gilles de Rais "Bluebeard"
Dark Siren - sorry, maybe it didn't come out as I wanted in English... Actually Gilles de Rais fought as a soldier with Joan of Arc and he was a military chief in fifteenth century France. It's also said that he and La Hire (another military chief) were among the crowd when Joan was burnt at stake and that they wanted to save her... but in this case we don't really know where history ends and romance begins... Anyway a wonderful novel on the subject is Michel Tournier's Gilles and Jeanne. And for his murderous acts... I'm afraid to say that he was helped by an Italian magician Francesco Prelati, that was born not so far from my own birth place...
Here's a link on Gilles de Rais (I haven't explored it yet):
www.crimelibrary.com/seri...tml?sect=2
Nalo: good luck for your book!
Edited by: neverossa at: 5/25/05 12:20 pm
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Dark Siren
Unregistered User
(5/25/05 11:22 am)
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Re: Joan of Arc and ... etc
No,my fault,I read it romantically.Sorry.
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Dark Siren
Unregistered User
(6/25/05 12:30 pm)
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Kelly Armstrong
Just a quick head's up for beautifulstars,now that I'm finally allowed back on-line and the convos are all back.
Senga's been reading the Kelly Armstrong Elena-series,and is getting me to read them.So far I'm at the chapter called "Vengeance" in Bitten where she's just had a fear-induced change when that guy who killed Logan is chasing her.Loving it.
Loving Clay too.The way I see it,he had a lose-lose situation where Jeremy was going to make him leave her,or he'd bite her and she'd hate him but she'd have to put up with him and there was always te chance she'd forgive him,because they really do love each other.And the thing with him wearing the ring?Can we just say "Awwwwwwww!"
(All together now - "Awwwwwwww!")
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beautifulstars
Unregistered User
(6/26/05 6:20 am)
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kelley armstrong
Dark Siren-- oooo. Glad you're enjoying the books! Yeah, I gotta say I kind of like how Armstrong weaves the relationship btw. Elena and Clay fairly seamlessly into the plot, so that it's essential but not overwhelming. Personally, I love the character of Jeremy. Think he's a little more prevalent in the second book.
I'm reading 'Haunted'--one of Armstrong's magic-witchy novels at the moment, and I have to say her writing in that area is not as strong as in the werewolf series.
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Dark Siren
Unregistered User
(6/29/05 6:52 am)
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Re:Kelly Armstrong
Senga says they're good.Are they worth reading?They don't have to be as good as Elena,just good.Anything while I'm waqiting for September.(Birthday & new Dark-hunter.)
Speaking of which - have you read them yet?If you're American,start
with "Fantasy Lover".If you're not,start with "Seize
the Night" and then "Night Pleasures" and work you're
way through.If you're from US,just keep in mind Valerius (Jr) isn't
what you think.Things are never what they seem with the Dark-hunters...and
those 2(three if you include Ash)especially.
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beautifulstars
Unregistered User
(7/8/05 1:28 pm)
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dark hunter & armstrong
Dark Siren-- Hurrah! I just wandered into the bookstore and picked up the newest Kim Harrison ("Every Which Way but Dead"). Of course, can't read either of them (her or Armstrong) at the moment since I have a growing list of fairytale-ish novels I am reading (just read 'East' by....Edith Pattou I think? It was FABULOUS).
I haven't started the Dark Hunter series yet, primarily since I
have this backlog of books. I have read the first few pages of Armstrong's
witchy book, and is not as engaging as her werewolf series, but
I won't read the whole thing for awhile. I will have to pick up
Dark Hunter (will keep your suggestions in mind) and have a crazy
supernatural reading binge soon.
Thanks for the suggestions.
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Dark Siren
Unregistered User
(7/10/05 1:02 pm)
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DH & Armstrong
I think we're gonna have to exchange emails if we keep going on
this way. Everyone else will be getting sick of us taking up the
convo.
At least,they do on hootoo.
Seriously though,we should swap,if just to keep up with our reading lists.
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beautifulstars
Unregistered User
(7/11/05 8:18 am)
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e-mail
Lol. Sounds good to me. trembling_blue_stars@hotmail.com. I made
the mistake of picking up Kim Harrison's latest book 'Every Which
Way but Dead' while meandering around my room and am now 3/4 of
the way through. I'll have to flog myself for straying from my
scheduled reading list later.
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Dark Siren
Unregistered User
(7/11/05 9:12 am)
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Re:email
lol.
I'm at DarkSiren27989@aol.com,or angeleyeskicksass@yahoo.com,which
is the one I use more often.DarkSiren27989 is my one on the home
computer(which caused me a hella lotta trouble,I can tell you! )
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