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Author
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Comment
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JKArtStudent
Unregistered User
(8/24/03 1:24 pm)
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student searching for sad endings
I am currently doing some research in to traditional songs, nursery rhymes, fables and storis in general but my search for a particular kind is proving difficult as I am looking for stories with less then happy endings! Rather then the fairytale ending of for example, snow white, rumplestiltskin, sleeping beauty or any of those which always end well and leave the reader feeling content and happy and am looking for more of a melancholic tone (like the ones perhaps more often found in stories of morels), for example the French story called "la chevre de monsieur segain" where the principle character is not mean nor nasty but comes never the less to an unfortunate and regretful ending, which leaves the reader (be it child or adult) with a pang of sympathy or sorrow for the "victim". Another story I have found like this in English is the story of the red balloon which is chased by children and burst or even the snow man when he melts.
I would really appreciate any helpful information you could give me or advice as to where I could go to find such stories.
Thank you for your time, I look forward to hearing from you.
P.s I am particularly interested where woods and forests included in the theme.
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Rosemary
Lake
Registered User
(8/24/03 11:15 pm)
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stories
For forests, there's a Russian folktale about a "little snow maiden" who melts, leaving everyone sad.
Calvino's ITALIAN FOLKTALES contains some serious stories with sad endings. To find them you might begin by reading the Notes in the back of the book.
Quite a few of the Contes des Fees stories (mostly by Madame d'Aulnoy) had sad endings. Search for d'Aulnoy, we had a thread about that this summer.
Some others in Lang's fairy books had sad endings. "Rover of the Plain"? Try Lang's tales from African and Amerind sources.
Here is a wonderful site for searching all Lang's stories by title, source, or text words.
liaisons.ou.edu/~lgibbs/a...dexbib.htm
Some old Grimm stories did too. "The Juniper Tree."
R.
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tlchang37
Registered User
(8/24/03 11:58 pm)
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songs
I'm currently listening to a PBS special of the Chieftans "Down the Old Plank Road". Alison Krauss just finished singing "Molly Bán (Bawn)". This is a good one if you are interested in tragic-ending story ballads.
We had a discussion about Swan Lake (another tragic ending) and varients on this ballad some time back. You can view the discussion at:
www.surlalunefairytales.com/boardarchives/2001/apr2001/swanlake.html
That might give you a start.
Tara
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janeyolen
Registered User
(8/25/03 4:39 am)
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Re: songs
Most of the Scottish Border Ballads (as collected by Sir Walter Scott et al) seem to have sad, tragic endings. It's harder to find ones in the collection that end happily for everyone.
Jane
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JoanneMerriam
Registered User
(8/25/03 9:45 am)
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Hans Christian Anderson had some.
<a href="http://hca.gilead.org.il/tin_sold.html">The Brave Tin Soldier</a>, <a href="http://hca.gilead.org.il/li_merma.html">The Little Mermaid</a> and The Little Matchstick Girl (which for some reason I can't find online) are pretty sad.
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JoanneMerriam
Registered User
(8/25/03 9:46 am)
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Whoops.
Here that is again, not messed up:
The Brave Tin Soldier, The Little Mermaid and The Little Matchstick Girl (which for some reason I can't find online) are pretty sad.
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AlisonPegg
Registered User
(8/25/03 10:37 am)
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Sad endings
Here are a few :
www.members.aol.com/Black...ebony1.htm
www.members.aol.com/Sixpe.../olga1.htm
mysite.freeserve.com/snow.../index.htm
mysite.freeserve.com/snow.../rock1.htm
mysite.freeserve.com/snow...ylvia1.htm
mysite.freeserve.com/snow.../city1.htm
Edited by: AlisonPegg at: 8/25/03 10:57 am
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chirons
daughter
Registered User
(8/25/03 6:23 pm)
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sad endings
Anything where two beings from different worlds (literally or figuratively) find love and then have to part. I'm thinking of the end of His Dark Materials, and that wonderful Japanese animated film Princess Mononoke, for two examples. There is also a subset of Child ballads that deals with illicit relationships between the classes ("Lady Dysie" and "Dowie Dens o' Yarrow," both recorded by Jean Redpath, have particularly tragic endings).
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duglis
Registered User
(8/26/03 12:21 am)
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Re: d'Aulnoy
Yes, regarding Madam d'Aulnoy there are at least:
The Yellow Dwarf
The Island of Happiness
The Ram
-Doug
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Nav
Unregistered User
(8/26/03 2:21 am)
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I hate sad endings.
I am basically against them if they are merely self-serving and written to seem "dark" and "hip."
Remember, in Princess Mononoke the girl and boy part but it is assumed they will be seeing more of each other in the future. It isn't forever.
As much as I loved Dark Materials, I hated the ending. Not so much because Will and Lyra had to part, as much as I thought it was thrown in for no better reason than "we have to have a sad ending." If an ending like this served some real instead of perceived purpose to the storyline it wouldn't be as objectionable. This type of thing has become predominant in literature and film in recent years and has become as boring and predictable as the happy trails into the sunset endings of yesteryear. I call it the "Alien 3 Syndrome." Those who have seen that piece of dreck will know why. We live in very cynical times.
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Kim
Turner
Registered User
(8/26/03 2:57 pm)
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Sad endings
What about The Selfish Giant by Oscar Wilde? That was pretty sad, but I don't know if this is a 'fairy tale' as such.
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Jess
Unregistered User
(8/26/03 11:19 pm)
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The little match girl
You can probably find a version of the tale under this title: The Little Match Girl.
The Arabian Nights include many sad tales, but my favorites (and they are included in several forms, several times) are those where the protagonist loses paradise because he opened a forbidden door. Others are what I would call warning tales where a story teller is warning the listener not to repeat his behavior lest the listener end up in a similar position.
Jess
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chirons
daughter
Registered User
(8/27/03 8:19 am)
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wilde
There's also "The Birthday of the Infanta" by Oscar Wilde.
Nav -- I'm not sure I agree with what you see as something of a gratuitously bittersweet ending for His Dark Materials. There is preparation for it in the plot before the third book even starts, so I can't see that it's thrown in, nor is it all or nothing, because Pullman extends some hope that all contact is not broken, for two reasons: Will has his father's cloak, which indicates that he may at some time begin training in the shamanic journey, which will make it possible for him to "travel" to her in spirit (Will's mother tells him he will "take up his father's mantle", and the witch Serafina tells Mary Malone that one of the children has already made the start for contact to other worlds, meaning Will); and Lyra is about to begin the long work to regain her skill with the alethiometer, which transcends all the worlds in its range and will keep her informed about Will. The idea, I assume, is that what was once a childhood grace in improbable circumstances can be partially regained, with necessary and "realistic" adult limits, through work and dedication.
Edited by: chirons daughter at: 8/27/03 9:27 am
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Oyceter
Registered User
(8/28/03 1:12 am)
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Also...
There's Oscar Wilde's The Nightingale and the Rose at http://www.planetmonk.com/wilde/happyprince/nightingale.html
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Rosemary
Lake
Registered User
(8/28/03 11:15 pm)
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sad stories from CAbinet des Fees
Sad endings
The Yellow Dwarf, d'Aulnoy, Blue Fairy Book
The Island of Happiness
The Ram
The Wonderful Sheep, d'Aulnoy, Blue Fairy Book
(hm, wonder if those are the same story?)
Happy endings
The Golden Branch, Red Fairy Book
Prince Hyacinth and the Dear Little Princess, de Beaumont (a put-on?), Blue Fairy Book
P:rincess Minon-Minette, Pink Fairy Book, 'Bibliotheque des Fees et des Genies' (I bet George MacDonald read this.)
The White Doe, d'Aulnoy, Orange Fairy Book
The Frog and the Lion Fairy, d'Aulnoy, Orange Fairy Book
Felicia and the Pot of Pinks, d'Aulnoy, Blue Fairy Book
The White Cat, d'Aulnoy, Blue Fairy Book
Prince Darling, Blue Fairy Book
R.
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Nav
Unregistered User
(8/29/03 12:50 pm)
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In spite of the clues
I still think it was "well, we did it, and in spite of all the promise, now we have to leave each other forever." I remember almost rolling my eyes when I read that passage. I would always agree that it was well written, and bittersweet, if anything, but not really acceptable as completely realistic. In other words, I thought the device used for their seperation was contrived, like those of an ancient Greek drama. This is me, others are welcomed to find their own conclusions. I also agree that they may find their way across again (although I missed the bit about the coat being a way to cross over to see her - didn't think of that), but as I recall (correct me if I am wrong) that no matter what they do, they have to remain in their own worlds or face certain doom. I don't know how "romantic" the occasional visit would be, and as they reach adulthood, how much they might care, since they might be involved with others by then.
The other thing that was a great literary device but seemed strange to me was when Will asks Lyra to remember him when much later on, as an adult, they have other love interests. Now, I am the last one to pander to the idea that kids can't be sophisticated, but there are some concepts most 13-year-olds (or even older teens) don't quite grasp, and romances beyond the immediate is usually a big one. This is a niggling point, because one could say that Will is more aware than most kids his age, but it rang false with me. So maybe it was getting hit with all this convention at once that took things down a few notches for me.
Maybe someday Pullman will write more on this but for now he has pretty much said "the end" meant The End. Which is his choice. Maybe, as you say, it is better to leave it up to the reader's imagination that there can be future contacts between Will and Lyra. I am sure the fanfic crowd will be churning out those by the bushelful! I still think the series is brilliant and one of the more original things I've read in years. The ending didn't ruin it for me, just brought about an "oh, another sad ending again" smirk from me. I do like your summation of what was lost may be regained through effort and dedication. It is an interesting theme and one I like in many stories I read. Thanks for the interesting comments, chirons daughter.
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gormghlaith
Registered User
(8/29/03 2:25 pm)
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off topic, but...
Nav, just in case you havent heard, Pullman is coming out with a
new book, Lyra's Oxford, in October. I havent read the descriptions
that can be found at other sites because I want it to be a surprise!
But maybe it touches on the relationship between Lyra and Will.
The amazon link is http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0375828192/thesurlalufairyt
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Nalo
Registered User
(9/2/03 11:44 am)
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Re: I hate sad endings.
What an interesting thread! I share some of Nav's feelings about sad endings; sometimes (not always) they feel contrived solely to make the reader feel like a chump for having hope. They can be pretty depressing. On the other hand, Jane got me thinking that a lot of ballads have sad endings, and yet I rarely find that the endings drag me down emotionally in the same way. Does anyone else find this, and have any ideas why that might be?
And yet, I don't want a steady diet of unequivocally happy endings, either. Those seem too pie-in-the-sky. I like my endings to have many notes; something lost, something learned, something regretted, something salvaged, something gained.
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janeyolen
Registered User
(9/3/03 1:13 am)
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Re: I hate sad endings.
Nalo--it's that something salvaged, somethng gained I need. Tough magic demands tough sacrifices. Or at least willingness for sacrifices. I don't just want the ram on the rock instead of Isaac. I need to know what Jacob and Isaac have BOTH gotten from the experience. That's not a King's X story, but a lifetime of discussion, accusations, wrestling with angels.
Jane
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janeyolen
Registered User
(9/3/03 1:28 am)
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Re: I hate sad endings.
Nalo--may I quote you: "I like my endings to have many notes; something lost, something learned, something regretted, something salvaged, something gained." in my new book on writing? And in speeches?
Jane
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Nalo
Registered User
(9/4/03 4:04 pm)
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Re: I hate sad endings.
Most surely, Jane!
-nalo
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